Street fight against a jabber/boxer

Status
Not open for further replies.

Senin

Yellow Belt
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Reaction score
2
How would a ninjutsu fighter fight against a boxer-type on the street? What I have noticed over the years in America, when a street fight begin and two square off, at least one will go into his Mohammed Ali style of fighting. Jumping, throwing a few jabs before the other punches. Often times in martial arts training, people train for the tsuki- one straight committed punch. That is relatively easy to avoid, defend, then attack. But what about those (not so committed) jabs?
 

Whitebelt

Blue Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
209
Reaction score
7
Location
Located
I know nothing about ninjutsu so you can dismiss this straight away: I'd say grappling/clinching the fellow would be the best option seeing as you dont want too many of these jabs to land and they are quite hard to brush off, putting them on the floor although quite an extreme step would stop the jabs coming and give you an upper hand.
 

DWeidman

Blue Belt
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
252
Reaction score
18
Location
Los Angeles
How would a ninjutsu fighter fight against a boxer-type on the street? What I have noticed over the years in America, when a street fight begin and two square off, at least one will go into his Mohammed Ali style of fighting. Jumping, throwing a few jabs before the other punches. Often times in martial arts training, people train for the tsuki- one straight committed punch. That is relatively easy to avoid, defend, then attack. But what about those (not so committed) jabs?

First off -- I haven't seen much in the way of jab-fighting on teh r34l str33ts -- but maybe your mileage varies.

That aside -- what you do depends on the circumstances. I will expect to hear "walk away" as the #1 response here... if a guy wants to box you -- it probably isn't a r34l fight. And probably a good answer...

That aside as well -- assuming you decide to jump into the fray -- then kicking and using kamae are probably your best bet. Take him out of his game.

But yes -- we do have an issue with non-committed attacks in general. Some more so than others.

-DW
 

Kage-Ronin

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
30
Reaction score
1
That aside as well -- assuming you decide to jump into the fray -- then kicking and using kamae are probably your best bet. Take him out of his game.

I will have to agree with MR Weidman here.
Kamae is a good safe bet. It's interesting how Ichimongi can be used against the jab.
I will add a caveat here: if you train it against someone who is actually punching with speed, intent, energy, strength, and footwork.
 

Don Roley

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
3,522
Reaction score
71
Location
Japan
What I have noticed over the years in America, when a street fight begin and two square off, at least one will go into his Mohammed Ali style of fighting.

At that point, I am gone. :redcaptur

Dan said a lot more that is damn good. Facing off for a fight just does not seem to be all that common. I worry more about a sudden sucker punch or attack than someone announcing his intention by facing off and getting into a boxing stance.
 
OP
S

Senin

Yellow Belt
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Reaction score
2
I'm not necessarily saying the guy taking the boxing stance is a good boxer, just that is what commonly happens. That is/was our culture--- boxing (nowadays it seems to be turning to MMA). But I have seen it time and time again. The two square off and one guy goes into the hopping/wild-jabbing type of thing. You are right, not exactly the committed punches, but a few lucky ones could do damage. I think your kamae would have to be pretty fast to deal with that. I'll have to try Ichimonji in that situation.

Maybe a few kicks would do the trick (don't know much about Mauy Thai, but maybe that is where it is useful).

Yeah, it seems the committed attack is much easier to deal with--- I really hate those jabbers.
 

Don Roley

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
3,522
Reaction score
71
Location
Japan
But I have seen it time and time again. The two square off and one guy goes into the hopping/wild-jabbing type of thing. You are right, not exactly the committed punches, but a few lucky ones could do damage. I think your kamae would have to be pretty fast to deal with that. I'll have to try Ichimonji in that situation.

Well, there are tons of videos on the internet of two people fighting. I have yet to see one where people have done what you say outside of a school yard and friends of mine with a lot of experience have said they have never seen a jab in a real fight.

And have you seen old photos of boxers? Before they starting using gloves that could take a lot of the blows they used to keep their arms way out there- almost like ichimonji. Probably not applicable to the conversation but I thought I would throw it out.
 

Alan Witty

White Belt
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Ft. Collins, CO
How would a ninjutsu fighter fight against a boxer-type on the street? What I have noticed over the years in America, when a street fight begin and two square off, at least one will go into his Mohammed Ali style of fighting. Jumping, throwing a few jabs before the other punches. Often times in martial arts training, people train for the tsuki- one straight committed punch. That is relatively easy to avoid, defend, then attack. But what about those (not so committed) jabs?


We actually played with this a few nights ago. One of our students used to box. So one thing that was tried was to trap the the jab using Jumonji. Even when a trap did not work the result was a disruption of the oppoents timining that left an opening. Another method I have seen was to simply open the distance and than leave a hole for the other person to lead into.

Actully I think you will see more in the way of a cross or a hook. Flailing is the best way to describe it.

Just a few thoughts.
 

rutherford

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
13
Location
Vermont, USA
Shoot him.

Slip the jab and stick a knife in his eye.

Really, however you like.

Sometimes, Ichimonji is just the tiniest movement. Doesn't have to be fast.

You can also intercept a fast attack with Jumonji. You can skip the trap, especially for the second jab.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
3,795
Location
Northern VA
First off -- I haven't seen much in the way of jab-fighting on teh r34l str33ts -- but maybe your mileage varies.

That aside -- what you do depends on the circumstances. I will expect to hear "walk away" as the #1 response here... if a guy wants to box you -- it probably isn't a r34l fight. And probably a good answer...

I was going to call him on that myself...

My experience is that the guys who are going to square off and fight aren't out to really hurt each other so much as "prove their manhood." These are the guys whose fights start with a pushing match and often a lot of verbal crap... The real deal fights? They don't get the warning and build up; the guy that wants to hurt the other one jumps his intended victim NOW.
 

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
We had Shihan Michael Asuncion up here in Alma very recently and when doing some teaching at one time he almost looked like a boxer. Really smooth beautiful movement and distancing that disrupted the opponents attack.

When dealing with someone who wants to throw that Jab use distance as your friend and make them overextend. (I know this is easier said than done) Get them to commit to their jab and have to reach. If you can do this then you may have quite a few options available. (if you cannot well you had better do something else like closing the distance)

I will also agree that very few people who are intent on doing you real serious harm are going to start a violent encounter by putting their fists up and saying come on. That may be how it is done in grade school but rarely in the real world does it unfold that way. In the real world it will probably be dirty, viscious and the attack will come out of nowhere with the perpetrator trying to get as much advantage as possible. (so you need to be able to feel when it is coming)
 

saru1968

Green Belt
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
192
Reaction score
7
Location
uk
Never in my whole life have i seen someone 'square up' and jab attack etc as other have said it just tends to kick off, after all if you get verbal warning then one can leave.


Funny enough we did some jab defence before a couple of months back, basic timing, distance and Jodan Uke. Good fun but not what i'd do outside.
 

onikarasu

White Belt
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
4
Reaction score
1
IMHO You should simply control the distance until you find an opening,or draw him into a fully commited punch.Uke nagashi is also a good one.A couple well placed koppo ken (or whatever you prefer)can make some one give up the fight in alot of situations.
 

elder999

El Oso de Dios!
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
9,929
Reaction score
1,451
Location
Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
Well, there are tons of videos on the internet of two people fighting. I have yet to see one where people have done what you say outside of a school yard and friends of mine with a lot of experience have said they have never seen a jab in a real fight.
.

I have-of course, the guy was a boxer.....with a knife in his hand.:eek:
 

Ronnin

Blue Belt
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
210
Reaction score
4
IMO, if you find yourself in a situation with a boxer/striker, chances are he's forgotten about his legs. Attack his legs, this has proven VERY effective for me in real situations. At the very least he will throw his hands down and jump his lower body back and out of the way, thus leaving a nice target for his face. This is also a very good fake.
 

Don Roley

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
3,522
Reaction score
71
Location
Japan
I have-of course, the guy was a boxer.....with a knife in his hand.:eek:

That I can believe real easily. There seems to be two different ways the knife is used in the street most often- the way you faced and grabbing with one hand and pumping the blade in and out of the guy with the other.

One thing I would like to point out is that when we talk about controling the space we are mainly talking about not getting in a position where the other guy can get to us without taking a step. But if we are in a position where someone can just reach out and touch us- like for a jab, it goes both ways. And in that position I have always been trained to suppress the limb able to reach out to me. Just resting your hand on the lead arm and being able to take advantage of kansetsu waza oppurtunities seems the logical choice if you can't get totally out of range of a jab.
 

Shizen

White Belt
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Where I work we have had some fights here and there but I have only seen one where the two will do as you speak (square off and all). The one i saw where the two men squared off both were in a somewhat boxer stance and throwing jabs at each other, long story short the fight was brokken up in about ten seconds by there friends. And I think that with these typ of attackers just being in a good kamae and leaving them no opening to hit you might just get it so the give up and say "your not wortht it", or they might just get mad and and become commited to hurt you. in which case....

But I am no expert this is just what i have wittnessed
 

Seattletcj

Green Belt
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
127
Reaction score
4
Location
Seattle
Has anyone mentioned to keep your hands up? Tucking your chin when moving in with whatever you are doing may be a good idea too.
 

bencole

Green Belt
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Messages
114
Reaction score
3
Has anyone mentioned to keep your hands up?

I distinctly remember someone in another thread reminding practitioners to understand why we leave our hands out after we punch in the Bujinkan, and why we should learn to generate knock down power from that position.... :mst:

The idea of practicing this was called "absurd", "dangerous" and a whole bunch of other junk by people ranging from Seattletcj, to Rubber Tanto, to Richard Ray.

Would any of you guys care to explain how the dynamics of keeping your hands up against a jab differs so greatly from the dynamics of having your hands up after a punch?

For me, they are one and the same. I'm pretty confident that Hatsumi-sensei would agree.

-ben
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Discussions

Top