What is the point of a tag in a full-contact fight?

[Yokozuna514]

It changes your ability to sit a certain ranges and angles and to do stuff.

A lot of kuokashin is inside the pocket and if I punch you in the face and run away you never have time to set up anything.

That style of fighting (inside the pocket) is quite old. There are a few places in NA that still teach fighting that way but the majority of the Kyokushin world has moved away from the "stand and bang" cro magnon fighting.

 

[paitingman]

I think light tagging supplemented with going hard on pads or sometimes harder in sparring is fine.

I realized when I first started sparring with MT fighters that I had made somewhat of a habit of softening every punch I threw.
I could always kick however hard I wanted, but punches... I just wasn't in the habit of seriously striking someone in the face with my fist. People appreciated this about me lol but it troubled me a little bit.
My strikes had teaching power but not stopping power lol.
It was mostly mental. The power was there I just didn't feel comfortable delivering it sort of. I had to get used to the whole thing and just collect mental data on how things turned out everytime I punched someone in the head and they punched me. I learned what generally turned out okay and what didn't and felt okay about letting them fly a little more. (Something most people probably learn starting out in full contact boxing just naturally). Coming from a semi-contact background, I just had to acclimate myself.

Once I was over that hurdle I haven't had a problem since really. My point sparring training had really helped me learn how to win exchanges or exit quickly. Doing that and now really sitting into my punches during sparring showed me that I really didn't have to punch that hard at all like I thought lol. Crisp, quick, accurate punches with good timing stun most just fine. You can either dig into them a little or give them the pillow fist. When sparring, I'm fine just peppering people and taking it one exchange at a time, learning as I go.

 

[drop bear]

That style of fighting (inside the pocket) is quite old. There are a few places in NA that still teach fighting that way but the majority of the Kyokushin world has moved away from the "stand and bang" cro magnon fighting.

This is our local karate school. Now one of the guys I have trained with is a national champion. So they are definitely successful in their method.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=737628559759308

This would be too much stand and bang for a person who jabs and runs.

 

[dvcochran]

This is our local karate school. Now one of the guys I have trained with is a national champion. So they are definitely successful in their method.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=737628559759308

This would be too much stand and bang for a person who jabs and runs.

I am not sure what your point is?

 

[drop bear]

I am not sure what your point is?

It changes your ability to sit a certain ranges and angles and to do stuff.

A lot of kuokashin is inside the pocket and if I punch you in the face and run away you never have time to set up anything.

 

[skribs]

It changes your ability to sit a certain ranges and angles and to do stuff.

A lot of kuokashin is inside the pocket and if I punch you in the face and run away you never have time to set up anything.

By that logic, someone who punches and runs can't take a punch.

You see one skill and assume absence of all other. It's the same principle by which "peek-a-boo" works on babies, since they lack object permanence and believe that their mother actually disappears when she covers her face.

 

[drop bear]

By that logic, someone who punches and runs can't take a punch.

You see one skill and assume absence of all other. It's the same principle by which "peek-a-boo" works on babies, since they lack object permanence and believe that their mother actually disappears when she covers her face.

What?......

 

[skribs]

What?......

You see people standing and punching each other, and your immediate response is "well they don't know how to move."

You see a skill, you assume a lack of all other skills. You see a strategy, you assume a lack of of all other strategies. You hear someone say something about martial arts, you assume it's all they know about martial arts. You hear someone say a technique, you assume the entire fighting style is built around that one technique.

I was making the comparison to a baby. Because they lack object permanence. When their mother plays "peek-a-boo" (where the mother will hide her face behind her hands, and then uncover her face and say "peek-a-boo"), the baby doesn't realize the mother is there anymore when the mother hides. This is because their brain hasn't yet formed enough for them to keep track of objects they can't directly see, so they just assume the mother has vanished into thin air.

This is the same level of observational skill I see in you. You are only capable of seeing what's directly in front of you. I have to apologize. This was funny for me. You were a source of entertainment. But now that I'm seeing how damaged you really are, it's just sad. I'll stop giving you a hard time and leave you alone.

 

[O'Malley]

It changes your ability to sit a certain ranges and angles and to do stuff.

A lot of kuokashin is inside the pocket and if I punch you in the face and run away you never have time to set up anything.

A lot of wrestling is body to body and if I punch you in the face and run away you never have time to set up anything.

 

[Yokozuna514]

This is our local karate school. Now one of the guys I have trained with is a national champion. So they are definitely successful in their method.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=737628559759308

This would be too much stand and bang for a person who jabs and runs.

Thanks for posting the video and it is an example of what I meant about and "older style of fighting" that is still taught in some places in NA. Most other places in the world of Kyokushin have moved on to other strategies and tactics. The Japanese have a completely different way of fighting. So do the Western Europeans. The Russians and former Eastern Block also have a completely different style as well. In Montreal, we are also developing our own style of fighting Knockdown. It has been interesting to follow the evolution of Kyokushin and Knockdown Karate but we also recognize that the (r)evolution is growing at different paces depending on where you are in the world.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Thanks for posting the video and it is an example of what I meant about and "older style of fighting" that is still taught in some places in NA. Most other places in the world of Kyokushin have moved on to other strategies and tactics. The Japanese have a completely different way of fighting. So do the Western Europeans. The Russians and former Eastern Block also have a completely different style as well. In Montreal, we are also developing our own style of fighting Knockdown. It has been interesting to follow the evolution of Kyokushin and Knockdown Karate but we also recognize that the (r)evolution is growing at different paces depending on where you are in the world.

If you cared to put together a post outlining those regional differences (maybe with video examples) I’d love to see it. The little bit of Kyokushin I’ve seen and experienced has been the older style.

 

[drop bear]

Thanks for posting the video and it is an example of what I meant about and "older style of fighting" that is still taught in some places in NA. Most other places in the world of Kyokushin have moved on to other strategies and tactics. The Japanese have a completely different way of fighting. So do the Western Europeans. The Russians and former Eastern Block also have a completely different style as well. In Montreal, we are also developing our own style of fighting Knockdown. It has been interesting to follow the evolution of Kyokushin and Knockdown Karate but we also recognize that the (r)evolution is growing at different paces depending on where you are in the world.

As soon as I tried to footwork doing kuokashin.(As I would kickboxing) I got caught going backwards and was pushed backwards.

Which I believe is a bad look. It thing you loose points for flinching.

 

[Yokozuna514]

If you cared to put together a post outlining those regional differences (maybe with video examples) I’d love to see it. The little bit of Kyokushin I’ve seen and experienced has been the older style.

Ok, to be clearer the styles I was referring to were popularized and taught as strategies and tactics in the home countries that created them. When these newer strategies and tactics were used in world tournaments for the first time, the rest of the Kyokushin world quickly adapted and learned the 'ins and outs' of the strategies and tactics. You may see a lot of examples of similar strategies and tactics used by other players from other countries but the original ideas were born and favoured in different areas of the globe.:

Japan - The Japanese started a trend of "hoping" in a c-pattern around their opponent. The c-pattern was to keep the fighter light on their feet as they continuously stayed offline from their opponent. They also coupled this with an increasing pace as the round drew to a close to leave an impression on the judges that they were 'busier' in the fight. In this video, you can see Sensei Yuto slide into this strategy at the end of the fight:

As there are many Kyokushin offshoots even in Japan these strategies and tactics are used to varying degrees. Shinkyokushin is also starting to develop a new approach now that Tsukamoto Sensei is the coach of the National Team. You can see Yuto Sensei use some of the newer tactics in the same video. There is a higher tendency to crowd the opponent is to nullify the use of the legs and desire for distance.

Eastern Europe/Russians - The Eastern Europeans/Russians favour close in fighting and are extremely adept with their punching and close in kicking. Valeri Sensei is probably the best proponent of this style of fighting. He uses a wide variety of kicks from many different angles but he probably best known for his use of the heel kick to the thigh and the very close 'kaiten geri knockout:

Here is another video that will give you an idea of the direction they are going in Russia:

Western Europe - In Western Europe there is more of tendency to fight at a distance or to go 'in and out' to bring in the use of legs. Many of the northern countries especially like use their height and weight to dominate matches but that is a pretty clear idea. This video will give you an idea of the ranges that the matches are fought at:

The evolution of Knockdown is going on all the time and there is a resurgence or desire for teachers from all over the world to start to share these tactics and strategies at camps and seminars so that everyone can benefit. The days of just standing in close and slugging away in a war of attrition is what Kyokushin used to be known for but hopefully these examples of what is being developed around the world will start to change that perception of Knockdown Karate.

 

[Martial D]

The problem is there is becoming a very good argument for timing as being a fast track for success rather than technical knowledge which is possibly about the least impactful element in a fight.

Which is quite often why these guys are getting bashed.

And this is with techniques that are designed to work at full speed not half speed.

Kit dale has been an advocate of timing based training. And the evidence is he was very successful very quickly.

YES

I have been saying this forever.

Even if your technique is garbage, if you understand distance and timing, you will be successful.

If you don't, you will not.

 

[Buka]

Better timing will beat superior speed, mastering distance will beat just about anything.