Dude, you should have done the same.....
"Strategy not working in Afghanistan" says top US and NATO General.
- Thread starter Tez3
- Start date
Dude, you should have done the same.....
This is a very old discussion; the Taliban can not be defeated by strictly military means, as this is not a conventional war. (Sorry, it can be done, but the mass murder of 42 million Pashtuns living in two or three different countries kind of turns my stomach a wee bit
.)
Giving the military its head to go and do what must be done, is all well and good, in fact I agree with it, but if it were only about killing more of them, then they kill of us, wed have been continuously carpet bombing them for the last eight years.
The Taliban have never attacked anyone outside of their own country, ever. What they did do is give shelter to al-Qaeda.
There needs to be a political solution, there simply has to be, and that means making political deals with the Pashtun tribal leaders, including the Taliban. Its distasteful, but it is the best way to save allied lives and money.
Giving the military its head to go and do what must be done, is all well and good, in fact I agree with it, but if it were only about killing more of them, then they kill of us, wed have been continuously carpet bombing them for the last eight years.
The Taliban have never attacked anyone outside of their own country, ever. What they did do is give shelter to al-Qaeda.
There needs to be a political solution, there simply has to be, and that means making political deals with the Pashtun tribal leaders, including the Taliban. Its distasteful, but it is the best way to save allied lives and money.
jetboatdeath
Blue Belt
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Ken explain to me where I attacked him?
I beleive he is the one on the attack.
I beleive he is the one on the attack.
I think you and she are coming at this as two people who have experienced all the **** war has to offer, complete with the well earned scars. Furthermore I think you both have more in common then not.
This is not an argument either of you can hope to, win.
This is not an argument either of you can hope to, win.
jetboatdeath
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Agreed
Sorry I just get heated when the subject comes up, for most of the same reasons she does I am sure...
Sorry I just get heated when the subject comes up, for most of the same reasons she does I am sure...
still learning
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Hello, What is the true story for us to be in those countries? ....
Is it because of the terrorist? or something bigger? .....$$$$
Oil...who control it...owns USA...$$$$
Aloha, just my opinion on this.....our country is an oil machine...
PS: Wanted...foreign oil ...if your country needs help? ...call USA...we have the Dollars,$$$$
Is it because of the terrorist? or something bigger? .....$$$$
Oil...who control it...owns USA...$$$$
Aloha, just my opinion on this.....our country is an oil machine...
PS: Wanted...foreign oil ...if your country needs help? ...call USA...we have the Dollars,$$$$
OP
- Thread Starter
- #27
Oh my dear boy how many assumptions you make about me, how sweet though of you to think I'm some young sprig who's never been in the military!
I bet you think I'm some young teenage male keyboard warrior who has communist leanings, son I've seen more wars than you've had breakfasts,I've buried more friends, subordinates and even martial arts students than people should ever have to, over the past 40 years that includes my fiance, a fine Royal Marine Commando blown up in Northern Ireland.. I was at a funeral last week of a soldier killed in Afghanistan, in April on of my martial arts students was killed there.
No the soldiers don't want to be there though as I've said before they actually enjy the fighting, how do I know because in half an hour I shall put my uniform on and go off to work among them, we only have a few thousand here so I guess i've have only got their views to go on, oh and of course all my martial arts students, even the kids parents are in the military but hey what do i know eh?
Oh and by the way my colleagues and I go across to Afghanistan quite regularly to teach the Afghani police force how to police but then I'm just a cry baby who hates losing people she taught to bombs. What would I know?
have a nice day up there on your high horse.
Archangel M
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I still find it odd that the media seems to parade every single casualty as "proof" of defeat.
"51 U.S. troops were killed, making 2009 the deadliest year of the eight-year war for both U.S. and NATO forces"
Double digit casualties in a year of war..it wasnt long ago that that many were killed in hours of battle.....how times have changed.
"51 U.S. troops were killed, making 2009 the deadliest year of the eight-year war for both U.S. and NATO forces"
Double digit casualties in a year of war..it wasnt long ago that that many were killed in hours of battle.....how times have changed.
First how many people here have been in the military and how many have been in combat? How many people here are Law Enforcement and of those how many have been in a deadly force/ugly situation (most I imagine).
Before anyone starts piping off about how it is wrong to be in a war or how bad it is to die and that we should just pull out let me hear you say what you stand for.
We are on Martialtalk.com, "martial" studying Budo, the art of war so tell me why you are doing that and at the same time picking at the self confidence of our warriors in the field.
If the strategy is not working let the Generals figure that one out and let them change it, not some slimy politician wanting to get re-elected and not the liberal media who love to make America look like the bad guy(s) and want to steer public opinion.
War sucks, people die, deal with it. When you wear the uniform that is one of the facts of the job. We are there now and we need to be in it to win it so if you have nothing constructive to say then say nothing otherwise you are hindering and not helping. And if you are studying the martial arts and want to be critical of another warrior take a walk in his or her shoes and then tell me the strategy is not working.
If you want to be critical of something pick on over paid sports figures, corruption in government or an attack on the Constitution (and your rights). The US and the UK people need to take a long hard look at what is going on at home and abroad and work on dealing with it, while supporting their troops.
Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now, but dang it, I am a soldier and a LEO and I have seen what people can do to people (willingly) and to hear someone spouting the same rhetoric about injured soldiers and it is wrong to be in a war........................ I get a little fired up.
Sorry, sorry, I am really off the soapbox now.................. deep breathing, focus.....
Before anyone starts piping off about how it is wrong to be in a war or how bad it is to die and that we should just pull out let me hear you say what you stand for.
We are on Martialtalk.com, "martial" studying Budo, the art of war so tell me why you are doing that and at the same time picking at the self confidence of our warriors in the field.
If the strategy is not working let the Generals figure that one out and let them change it, not some slimy politician wanting to get re-elected and not the liberal media who love to make America look like the bad guy(s) and want to steer public opinion.
War sucks, people die, deal with it. When you wear the uniform that is one of the facts of the job. We are there now and we need to be in it to win it so if you have nothing constructive to say then say nothing otherwise you are hindering and not helping. And if you are studying the martial arts and want to be critical of another warrior take a walk in his or her shoes and then tell me the strategy is not working.
If you want to be critical of something pick on over paid sports figures, corruption in government or an attack on the Constitution (and your rights). The US and the UK people need to take a long hard look at what is going on at home and abroad and work on dealing with it, while supporting their troops.
Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now, but dang it, I am a soldier and a LEO and I have seen what people can do to people (willingly) and to hear someone spouting the same rhetoric about injured soldiers and it is wrong to be in a war........................ I get a little fired up.
Sorry, sorry, I am really off the soapbox now.................. deep breathing, focus.....
still learning
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Hello, How can ONE win if the enemy is everywhere? .....Vietnam...NOW....Afghanistan...The Russian couldn't...what makes our Governament believe we can win too?
1.We will not win for two reasons....terrroist...unless supply of men,women, and children....
2. No one wants another foreign country in there own yards....
Would you like to see China/Russians soldiers here in America...doing what USA is doing in other countries? ...trying to change the governments...
----------------------
We are there because of one reason? ...the OIL!
Aloha,
PS: Amercia is so much oil? ..yet it is our OWN government restricting us...
1.We will not win for two reasons....terrroist...unless supply of men,women, and children....
2. No one wants another foreign country in there own yards....
Would you like to see China/Russians soldiers here in America...doing what USA is doing in other countries? ...trying to change the governments...
----------------------
We are there because of one reason? ...the OIL!
Aloha,
PS: Amercia is so much oil? ..yet it is our OWN government restricting us...
blindsage
Master of Arts
So you're right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and should just STFU. Now what country, ideals and way of life are you talking about defending?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #32
that wasn't 51 soldiers killed in a year that was 51 in a month.
Firstly I'm not against fighting and not against a war in which we are it for the right reasons and the reason I think we should pull out is maybe not the same as many others and it's not something that has anything to do with the Americans or other NATO troops. The British situation is different.
It's different because our government is causing the death of our troops. We have inadequate equipment, not enough body armour, sometimes not enough food and the vehicles the government bought are not fit for use, they are death traps. The American forces turned down the vehicles we bought because they tested them and found them inadequate for the job of protecting soldiers from blasts and to add insult to inury the good ones the Americans bought were cheaper than the rubbish our government bought.
Before our troops got to Afghan they are suppose to train, there is not enough money for vital live firing exercise. Soldiers straight out of basic training are going into the front line, they haven't had time to train properly for the theatre they are going into, this causes their deaths and those of their comrades.
We've had generals sacked and smeared with innuendoes for speaking up
for their troops. the situation for our troops is getting worse, the government needs to either get a grip or go, our soldiers lives are being wasted for nothing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410175/Sir-Richard-Dannatt--A-honest-General.html
There is traditionally a covenant in this country between the forces and the government, the soldiers do and die and the government looks after them. that has been broken. Recently the government went to court to have the compensation paid to a soldier injured in Afghanistan reduced. there is a lack of hospital places for injured soldiers, charities are taking up the slack and we, the public, are raising money for vital facilities for injured soldiers. Another thing too which was brought up on the visit of the Prime Minister to Afhanistan the other day, by a soldier which was never answered. Why do our troops out there have to pay income tax? there is no extra pay for soldiers on the front line and many of them have had to buy their own kit to take out there with them.
Yes war sucks, war is hell etc but the British army has not been at peace since before the second world war, there's been many wars since, Korea, Suez, Oman,Cyprus, Falklands and of course Northern Ireland, the first Gulf War the second but never since the first world war have our soldiers been treated so shamefully. If the government sends them out to do a job they deserve the best equipment for the job and the best stragies the best military minds can devise but this Afghan war is a disgrace and our troops puled out, they are dying for nothing other than politicians egos and ignorance.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/09/afghanistan-soldiers-deaths-compensation-equipment
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/cons...ailures-putting-soldiers-at-risk-$1320683.htm
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...british-troops-in-afghanistan-86908-21524420/
Firstly I'm not against fighting and not against a war in which we are it for the right reasons and the reason I think we should pull out is maybe not the same as many others and it's not something that has anything to do with the Americans or other NATO troops. The British situation is different.
It's different because our government is causing the death of our troops. We have inadequate equipment, not enough body armour, sometimes not enough food and the vehicles the government bought are not fit for use, they are death traps. The American forces turned down the vehicles we bought because they tested them and found them inadequate for the job of protecting soldiers from blasts and to add insult to inury the good ones the Americans bought were cheaper than the rubbish our government bought.
Before our troops got to Afghan they are suppose to train, there is not enough money for vital live firing exercise. Soldiers straight out of basic training are going into the front line, they haven't had time to train properly for the theatre they are going into, this causes their deaths and those of their comrades.
We've had generals sacked and smeared with innuendoes for speaking up
for their troops. the situation for our troops is getting worse, the government needs to either get a grip or go, our soldiers lives are being wasted for nothing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410175/Sir-Richard-Dannatt--A-honest-General.html
There is traditionally a covenant in this country between the forces and the government, the soldiers do and die and the government looks after them. that has been broken. Recently the government went to court to have the compensation paid to a soldier injured in Afghanistan reduced. there is a lack of hospital places for injured soldiers, charities are taking up the slack and we, the public, are raising money for vital facilities for injured soldiers. Another thing too which was brought up on the visit of the Prime Minister to Afhanistan the other day, by a soldier which was never answered. Why do our troops out there have to pay income tax? there is no extra pay for soldiers on the front line and many of them have had to buy their own kit to take out there with them.
Yes war sucks, war is hell etc but the British army has not been at peace since before the second world war, there's been many wars since, Korea, Suez, Oman,Cyprus, Falklands and of course Northern Ireland, the first Gulf War the second but never since the first world war have our soldiers been treated so shamefully. If the government sends them out to do a job they deserve the best equipment for the job and the best stragies the best military minds can devise but this Afghan war is a disgrace and our troops puled out, they are dying for nothing other than politicians egos and ignorance.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/09/afghanistan-soldiers-deaths-compensation-equipment
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/cons...ailures-putting-soldiers-at-risk-$1320683.htm
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...british-troops-in-afghanistan-86908-21524420/