Steriod Use In Competitions

[MJS]

Do you feel that this is a big issue in the Martial Arts?

Do you feel that steriod use benefits the fighters in their performance?

Do the fighters think that by taking/not taking them, their performance will be any better/worse?


Thoughts?

Mike

 

[Xue Sheng]

Steroids not prescribed by a Doctor for medical reasons are just plain bad. And even if prescribed you need to be careful

 

[CuongNhuka]

If one person even considers using them, its too much. All steriods (ultimatly) do is make you stronger and angerier more often. In a fight (real or compition) you need to remain calm. Being on steroids may make you better against novas, no-nothings, but against an expert who knows what they're doing, your S.O.L. scouter.

 

[Blindside]

Strength, speed, and endurance are all attributes that can be enhanced through modern pharmecuticals. None of these take away from technique, so if technique is equal go with the bigger/stronger/faster man. Heck, great attributes can make up for alot of poor technique. Steiroids are a problem in MMA, the number of suspensions in the last two years shows that, but its probably not an issue for non-professional competitions. The incentive just isn't there.

Lamont

 

[Grenadier]

It's already reared its ugly head in the MMA world, when the very popular Stephan Bonnar was caught with boldenone in his blood.

I can understand why someone would take steroids to help heal an injury, when it's done in accordance with doctor's orders, and a strict regimen. Sometimes, it can really make a very large difference in terms of recovery.


However, when it comes to using it outside of such medical treatments, it's just plain abusive. One need only look back at the old Eastern Bloc regimes, and see their athletes sweeping the medals at the Olympic competitions.

When I was a child, I could remember how East Germany and the USSR were always the top two medal-winning countries. I was always wondering how the heck could they manage this? Certainly it wasn't a matter of work ethic, since our athletes train just as hard.

There's no question that steroids did help those athletes win the gold for their countries. Now that they test for such substances, one need only look at the medal counts of those nations now (or a least the nations they've become), and see that there is a huge difference.

 

[Grenadier]

On another note, I wonder if Johnnie Morton, former NFL receiver, and aspiring MMA fighter, used steroids?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/06/03/bc.mixedmartialarts.mort.ap/index.html

 

[mrhnau]

Well, not just steroids these days... you have all kind of things you can use. Human Growth Hormone has become popular. Some of this newer stuff you just can't test for yet. I think its kind of sad

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Chemically built muscle is unnaturally large and has the capacity to bear more load than regular muscle. Combined with the ferocity and animostic tendancies of a juicer, I could see how it could be more than cheating, it could be quite dangerous to the opponent. The competition fighter is now a straight killing machine. He's already fit. Now he has unnatural aggression and strength to back it up. Ever seen 'roid-rage? No place for that on the mat. That's your super-soldier-syrum right there. There's a huge price to pay, but new capacities and hights can be reached through unnattural methods. I think we should have steroid island where all the juicers can go and fight for dominance. It would be interesting to see the genetic effects after a few generations. I prefer to keep ma bollocks and live ma eighty years. HGH, I think, will have big problems later on for people.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Chemically built muscle is unnaturally large and has the capacity to bear more load than regular muscle. Combined with the ferocity and animostic tendancies of a juicer, I could see how it could be more than cheating, it could be quite dangerous to the opponent. The competition fighter is now a straight killing machine. He's already fit. Now he has unnatural aggression and strength to back it up. Ever seen 'roid-rage? No place for that on the mat. That's your super-soldier-syrum right there. There's a huge price to pay, but new capacities and hights can be reached through unnattural methods. I think we should have steroid island where all the juicers can go and fight for dominance. It would be interesting to see the genetic effects after a few generations. I prefer to keep ma bollocks and live ma eighty years. HGH, I think, will have big problems later on for people.

I like this idea. thats freakin awsome.

 

[MJS]

If one person even considers using them, its too much. All steriods (ultimatly) do is make you stronger and angerier more often. In a fight (real or compition) you need to remain calm. Being on steroids may make you better against novas, no-nothings, but against an expert who knows what they're doing, your S.O.L. scouter.

I'm a bit confused by your post here. There have been many fighters who have been on steriods and have had victories in the ring. You're stating that against an expert, the person is going to be out of luck. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying here. Can you clarify?

Mike

 

[MJS]

I asked this question, because recently, while watching a KOTC fight, one of the commentators was talking about one of the fighters. He stated that he was a 'physical specimen.' Now, I'll admit, the guy was cut, but I'm sitting there thinking to myself, "Well, yeah, I'd be a physical specimen too, if I was on the juice!"

IMO, I'd rather try to eat good, workout hard, and go with the results that I get. Just because someone doesn't look like Arnold, doesn't mean they can't do well! The long term side effects are something that I would be better off without.

Mike

 

[Tez3]

Much as I'd love to say I don't know anyone on steroids I can't. I shall have to be careful here as I'm not sure who reads this forum over here and I really don't want my head kicked in. ( I'm not joking I'm afraid nor being over dramatic)
Firstly someone I know fairly well and was/is one of the most well known fighters over here and would be a reasonably well known name to watchers of UFC over the past few years has taken steroids for years so much so that it has damaged his abilities to produce his own hormones and yes it has affected his temprament to the point of extreme violence over nothing. Despite his 'public' persona of a 'great guy' people are seriously scared of him, ( am I? hell yes)
Recently one of our pro fighters David Smyth 19 fought a lad a few months younger than him a lad called Brett Lee. Mick our instructor took the pair of them to Thailand last year to train at Fairtex, the Thais called them the twins they were so alike in size, bald heads everything. Brett's trainer asked for a day before weigh in which we refused as David was at college and couldn't get away so he weighed in on the day of the fight. We were told Brett was 65kg same as David but when we saw him get into the ring there was no way he was 65, more like 73kg! Brett had very clearly been on the steroids, he had the spotty skin everything. One of his other coaches let drop that he had weighed in more than David. David was beaten as Brett was far stronger than he. What should have been a close entertaining fight was mostly Brett taking Dave down and lying on him though David got some shots in. How do we keep David off the steroids now when it's been demonstrated that cheating wins?

It doesn't work for everyone though, we were at a show when a very fit well cut fighter came on, Mick said to me 'watch his stomach' which I thought was odd but at the start of the second round his stomach was distended and he was gassing badly, he lost, ran out of steam! Mick explained it was the steroids.

Other drugs are around as well, there are sadly a few drug dealers involved in British MMA. One coach gives his fighters a snort of cocaine before they fight. One of his fighters was choked out and started fitting which was attributed to the drug.A major promoter is is jail on remand over drug related dealings and another fighter with his brother are drugs dealers. Them I'm not naming as the Brits here would be very upset to know that. We also have some quite well known alleged criminals involved, http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006300310,00.html

I think on the whole though the UK MMA scene is still pretty cool and the majority don't take drugs. I hope so anyway.

 

[CuongNhuka]

MJS, what I mean is guys on steroids in a fight get really agrisive, really fast. Are they ripped? Yes. Are the built like a Greek God? Yes. When the strike do they throw like crazy men with no real technique what so ever? Yes. I watched a fight between a guy who lifts weights some times and drills technique alot. The other guy was on 2 protein supplments, human growth hormones, and stestoserone supplements. And this guy lifts weights for about 4 hours a day, including running. He spends about a half hour drilling technique.
When these two fought, the guy who doesn't do steroids, got the crapp kicked out of him in the first round. In the second, Mr. Roider couldn't touch him. He had tunnel vision from his roid rage. The other guy just dodged every haymaker, and cracked him a couple of times. In round three, they were on the ground. And Mr. Roider couldn't do boo to the other guy. End result was Mr. Roider in a Kimura. It didn't even have to get too deep, cause the guy was too huge.
Keep in mind this was a back yard UFC fight (I mean UFC rules, and ring size). And neither of them had really been trained in how fight, but from watching UFC, had figured out how to do alot of MMA. This aside, it dementrates my point. The none-roider drilled technique, and he remained calm, the roider just went into a range, and couldn't do boo after a few minutes of fighting.
See what I'm saying? Perhaps your thinking, would the result have been the same if the roider had drill technique more? It very well might have. But the thing is, if your on steroiods you're probably concerned about weight lifting. The main point of steroids (medicinal aside) is to make you bigger and more ripped. That can happen from doing more technique then weight lifting, but it's easier to get from wieghts.
Got me now?

 

[Andrew Green]

Steroids will always be around. Some guys get caught, some don't, some don't use.

But when your career is on the line its hard to blame them. If you got a injury that is keeping you from working, and some drugs will get you back into training (and getting paid) that has to be pretty appealling.

I'm not a user or a expert, but my understanding is that used correctly steroids can be very beneficial, with little negative side effects. Of course like any drug once you allow a little, you open the doors too abuse.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Go hard or go home, lol. We should have the steroid olympics like they have the special olympics. Give the juicers all the juice they want. Let them have scary viking names like "Neckpuncher the Facebreaker" and "Hans the Merciless Angry Berserker". Place your bets on the steroid count in their blood too. Let's see how good you can get at cheating. At your own risk, of course. I'm being serious, I think it would be cool. The managers would be on the juice too. What a joke it would be a couple decades down the road once everything begin's to sag. Then we could have an old-timer's "*****-**** league". Crazy old men with big sag and high pitch voices fighting for your amusement. I wonder how worried one juice monkey is about fighting another?

 

[MJS]

MJS, what I mean is guys on steroids in a fight get really agrisive, really fast. Are they ripped? Yes. Are the built like a Greek God? Yes. When the strike do they throw like crazy men with no real technique what so ever? Yes.

Ken Shamrock and Vitor Belfort have been rumored to use. Do they throw like crazy men with no real technique whatso ever?

I watched a fight between a guy who lifts weights some times and drills technique alot. The other guy was on 2 protein supplments, human growth hormones, and stestoserone supplements. And this guy lifts weights for about 4 hours a day, including running. He spends about a half hour drilling technique.
When these two fought, the guy who doesn't do steroids, got the crapp kicked out of him in the first round. In the second, Mr. Roider couldn't touch him. He had tunnel vision from his roid rage. The other guy just dodged every haymaker, and cracked him a couple of times. In round three, they were on the ground. And Mr. Roider couldn't do boo to the other guy. End result was Mr. Roider in a Kimura. It didn't even have to get too deep, cause the guy was too huge.
Keep in mind this was a back yard UFC fight (I mean UFC rules, and ring size). And neither of them had really been trained in how fight, but from watching UFC, had figured out how to do alot of MMA. This aside, it dementrates my point.

Well, I was trying to limit this discussion to pro fighters, not 2 guys that watch a tape and attempt to copy what they see.

The none-roider drilled technique, and he remained calm, the roider just went into a range, and couldn't do boo after a few minutes of fighting.
See what I'm saying? Perhaps your thinking, would the result have been the same if the roider had drill technique more? It very well might have. But the thing is, if your on steroiods you're probably concerned about weight lifting. The main point of steroids (medicinal aside) is to make you bigger and more ripped. That can happen from doing more technique then weight lifting, but it's easier to get from wieghts.
Got me now?

For the life of me, I can't recall a MMA fight where someone on steriods went crazy in the ring. Maybe it has happened, I don't know. If someone can point me to an example, that would be great.

Anyway...like I said, I ask this because it seems like every time you watch a fight, the guys are built beyond the norm. Maybe its that size mentality that makes people think that if they're huge, it means success all the time. Then again, I think back to the early UFC days with Royce. Tall, slender guy, not ripped by any means, yet he dominated.

Mike

 

[CuongNhuka]

I understand that the discussion should have been limited to real fighters with real training. But, I don't watch too much UFC, and this was the best example of what I meant.
Personnaly from the fights I've seen (way back when) it seems like the slender guy has the edge. So, I'm not too sure why guys spend so much time lifting weights in the first place.

Could just be me though

 

[Andrew Green]

Smaller guys never had an edge, unless they had a huge skill advantage.

Combat sports have weight classes for a reason.

 

[Tez3]

I've watched by now probably hundreds of fights and I've never seen any fighter go berserk with 'roid rage. saw a fighter on sunday who was mad at being choked out, he stood shouting at the other fighter that using a choke to win was a wuss's ( I paraphrase here for the sake of not using bad language lol) way of winning and the other guy should come out and fight properly! The other fighter just shook his head while the crowd made their feelings known. Funny as heck but not r'oid rage.

 

[Kwan Jang]

I've been a regular in the gyms for well over 20 years and was a competitive strength athlete on a national level. Personally, I am VERY anti-steroid (or GH, ect), but I have been around that culture for all my adult life. I have seen guys taking insane doses by the truckloads who were scrawny and smooth and I have seen and trained with guys on the Olympia level who were life-long drug free athletes (at least this was still happening up until the early '90's). It should be noted that Paul Anderson set strength records still unmatched today before steroids were ever invented.

The main advantage of steroids for athletes is to increase recuperation. This is why athletes not involved in strength sports often have as high of use/abuse as many powerlifters, weightlifters, and bodybuilders, though they usually don't get pegged as such since they don't look like "they must be on something". When on these drugs, an athlete can do a much higher volume of training without overtraining, this can be a great temptation to many.

Many athletes are not really worried by the health risks because they are often exagerated by the media and generally ignorant public. In my observations, this has led many to really abuse the drugs since they have heard people "cry wolf" for so long. They often become blind and deaf to the real dangers that can and do exist until it's too late.

Though not a defense for steroids, I would like to counter the false assumptions stated by one poster. Proper strength training will only increase strength, speed, and flexibility. A person can have a huge amount of muscle mass and still be far more agile than if he did not have that mass. Also, while I would agree that you should definitely work hard on improving and perfecting technique, improving your physical capabilities is not a deterent to doing this.