Royce Gracie vs. Sakuraba

punisher73

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I was just looking through this month's Tapout magazine and they had an article about grudge matches (or something along those lines) and they had several of them listed.

They had one about Sakuraba being the "Gracie Killer" and being 4-0 before he lost to Royce by unanimous decision.

Do you think that the loss should count since Royce was suspended for a year after testing positive for steroid use for that fight? Do you think that Royce's fight record should have an asterisk on that win stating that he tested positive for steriods?

How do you think MMA records should handle a win/loss like this?
 

Topeng

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The California Athletic Commission moved to change the rules so decisions could be overturned due to popping on a drug test. The rule was set to change because of Royce failing after this specific fight.
The Olympics withdraws medals for the same thing.
I think the decision should be overturned where Sakuraba gets the win or the fight not counted at all towards their records.
Its too bad since that was a match long awaited. The Gracies are phenomenal and I think its a shame this scandal involved the Gracie family.
I'll admit to being a Sakuraba fan (check out the "If you..." thread in the MMA forum) but I'd want the same if Kazushi had won and then failed that test.
 

Skpotamus

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I think that the fight should be changed to a no contest at the least.

I always thought the saddest thing about Gracie pissing hot was that his whole system was supposed to be for the little guy to beat the bigger guy. Not the bigger guy takes steroids to beat the little guy that already whooped him once (gracie weighed more for their first fight, not sure about the second).
 

thetruth

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Royce was never a big guy and I didn't see the difference in his physique or performance around the time of him being found guilty.

Didn't the Gracies throw in the towel for Royce in one of his fights with Sak? I think it was the one where they messed around for about 30mins. Boring *** fight!!!!


Cheers
Sam:asian:
 
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punisher73

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The first fight was in Pride, I think in 2000. The fight lasted for over an hour. The Gracies asked for special rules, such as no time limits for the fight. The fight was boring, but Sak did things like spank Royce while he was in the corner etc. (alot of Gracie fans were trying to say that Sak was tapping, but there was no hold or danger).

The Gracies did throw in the towel eventually due to Royce's exhaustion. I think that was a sore point that they didn't want time limits because their style didn't do well in timed matches and then Sak out lasted him.
 

Skpotamus

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Royce asked for special rules, then didn't even attend the rule meeting. Pissed off a lot of people at the time, especially since Sakuraba had already beaten Royler and (I believe) Renzo at that point. One of Roy'ces special rules were unlimited 15 minute rounds so he could wear down his bigger opponents like he had in his early UFC days, and the doctor/ref couldn't stop the fight. At fight time he came in at 186lbs, Sakuraba came in at 173lbs.

In the first round, Sakuraba walked right through Royce's guard and almost locked in a knee bar. The round ended with Royce trying to fight out of it.

The next 5 rounds saw Sakuraba clowning Royce. Tapping his pants to bring attention to them, then pulling them down to show the crowd Royce's skivvies. HE did mongolian chops, flying guard pass punches and kicks, he even wedgied Royce at one point, all while peppering Royce with punches and kicks. I believe he knocked Royce down several times.

At the end of the 6th round (90 minutes into the fight) Royce threw a kick at Sakuraba that Sak checked, breaking Royc'es foot. Royce's father threw in the towel at the end of that round.

(as a side note) Sakuraba came out after that 90 minute fight to fight Igor Vovchanchyn, the heavyweight contender and fought him to a draw in the first regulation round. Sak's corner then threw in the towel after that round rather than have an exhausted sakuraba fight another round with the heavy handed Vovchanchyn that typically fought around 220-230lbs.

In their rematch (gracie x sakuraba) Royce tested positive for nandrolone I believe. The standard for "failing" that drug test is 6 nanograms per milliter (Olympic Standards). Royce had over 50 ng/mL in his urine (the test equipment would only register up to 50ng/ml). Meaning he was roiding right up until the fight and taking way more steroids than a "normal" roider would.

Royce at 40 years old, fighting MAtt Hughes
http://www.sherdog.com/news/picture_gallery.asp?pic_id=30171&t_id=royce gracie&my_page=


Royce at 41 years old, fighting Sakuraba for the second time.
http://www.sherdog.com/news/picture_gallery.asp?pic_id=44711&t_id=royce gracie&my_page=5
 
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punisher73

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Skpotmas: Thanks for the recap, it's been so long since I had watched the fight. Also, thanks for the comparision photos. There is a HUGE difference in Royce's physique between the two contests. I had not heard the amount that he had tested, just the people decrying that it was a "false positive".
 

thetruth

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Nice pics!! He definitely shredded up for that fight. He has never looked that fit. Things like that would be enough for me to not want to train with someone (or their family). Did he try and deny or did he take his medicine?

Cheers
Sam:asian:
 

Skpotamus

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Nice pics!! He definitely shredded up for that fight. He has never looked that fit. Things like that would be enough for me to not want to train with someone (or their family). Did he try and deny or did he take his medicine?

Cheers
Sam:asian:


He did deny that he took steroids in a few interviews, but didn't actually try to challenge the findings, the fine or hte suspension or submit another urine sample for testing.
 

Kingindian

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i fave Royce when his shown in UFC (1,2,3)
and im sad that he lost to Sakuraba (first loss)

hope Gracie family can return with new hero
(Rickson will return in 2008?will he?)
 
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punisher73

punisher73

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i fave Royce when his shown in UFC (1,2,3)
and im sad that he lost to Sakuraba (first loss)

hope Gracie family can return with new hero
(Rickson will return in 2008?will he?)

I'm a Rickson fan, but unless they get age classes instead of just weight classes, I don't see Rickson doing well. Plus, at this point he has nothing to prove and everything to lose if he does lose.

I think that the MMA game has passed the Gracies by. I think that you can get one or two that will do very well in it, but they are not going to be the dominate names that they used to be.
 

Kingindian

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yeah i know they are oldies now...
but dont forget another Gracie, Kyra Gracie doing good at her class.
 

Odin

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yeps..she is beautifull.....

back to Sakuraba...how is it going with him now?

Still the same, still fighting out of his weight cat and still fighting with no regard to his safety...but then he is the man that once said he dreams of dying in the ring :p
 

Kingindian

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dying in the ring....well thats too hyperbolic
ref will stop the match before it happen
 

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