Starting Martial Arts After 50

Gerry Seymour

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Because you have to wear the uniform they give you.

My jujitsu gi is cotton. But the mess around with the weave to make it lighter.
All the places I trained, we didn't have to use what they sold (some didn't even sell them). But I just don't see anything in the inexpensive uniforms that's not either straight cotton or a cheaper blend. I really liked the uniforms we used in Judo, so I've gone back to something like those (after using the cheap stuff and a couple of more expensive cotton ones). It's like wearing a carpet, but it never feels stifling to me. Maybe I'm just a masochist.
 
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mrt2

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Update. Still here, and still training. This is my third week, and I am pretty happy so far. I like an exercise that engages the mind, and TKD seems to fit the bill there. Some kicks are easier for my aging muscles and tendons to do. I am doing more work before class loosening up my hips and groin. Helps with the roundhouse and hook kicks. It is hard to tell yet, but I feel like my conditioning is already a bit better than it was my first week.

It really doesn't matter, but as far as belt testing goes, the master already told me I can skip over high white and test for yellow, probably as soon as next month.
 

pdg

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It really doesn't matter, but as far as belt testing goes, the master already told me I can skip over high white and test for yellow, probably as soon as next month.

It does matter while it doesn't ;)

It may not mean anything outside your style (or even your school) but it'll mean you are getting access to training more techniques etc.

I'm personally not a fan of skipping grades, you might do the forms right enough, but there's much opportunity to miss out on some of the fundamentals - but really I suppose it depends on the curriculum and the individual.

Also, I have no idea what "high white" means...
 

Gerry Seymour

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It does matter while it doesn't ;)

It may not mean anything outside your style (or even your school) but it'll mean you are getting access to training more techniques etc.

I'm personally not a fan of skipping grades, you might do the forms right enough, but there's much opportunity to miss out on some of the fundamentals - but really I suppose it depends on the curriculum and the individual.

Also, I have no idea what "high white" means...
In his case, he has some fundamentals that are probably very rusty, but still probably better than a rank beginner. I've helped folks returning after many years get back into the swing, and they almost all are ready to move ahead much faster.
 

JR 137

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It does matter while it doesn't ;)

It may not mean anything outside your style (or even your school) but it'll mean you are getting access to training more techniques etc.

I'm personally not a fan of skipping grades, you might do the forms right enough, but there's much opportunity to miss out on some of the fundamentals - but really I suppose it depends on the curriculum and the individual.

Also, I have no idea what "high white" means...
“High white belt” is a white belt with a stripe or similar.

My CI typically skips 9th kyu and tests for 8th with the adults. He combines 10th and 9th kyu because he feels the syllabus for those two ranks are a bit too thin, and rather than testing at 2 month intervals for those, he skips the 9th kyu test and makes the 8th kyu test a combination of both. The total time in grade is pretty much the same, just no test in the middle. Kids learn slower, so he doesn’t typically skip it for them.

That’s probably what’s going on here too.
 

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In his case, he has some fundamentals that are probably very rusty, but still probably better than a rank beginner. I've helped folks returning after many years get back into the swing, and they almost all are ready to move ahead much faster.

“High white belt” is a white belt with a stripe or similar.

My CI typically skips 9th kyu and tests for 8th with the adults. He combines 10th and 9th kyu because he feels the syllabus for those two ranks are a bit too thin, and rather than testing at 2 month intervals for those, he skips the 9th kyu test and makes the 8th kyu test a combination of both. The total time in grade is pretty much the same, just no test in the middle. Kids learn slower, so he doesn’t typically skip it for them.

That’s probably what’s going on here too.

Yeah, that's what I meant by individual and curriculum.

We have white (10th), yellow stripe (9th), then yellow (8th).

There's enough white belt material to grade to 9th kup to keep an average adult beginner going for the 3 month minimum time (or ~22 classes if that takes longer) in grade. Well, there is if you apply yourself to really learning it rather than just the minimum for the test ;)

For juniors (people starting aged about 7 up to around 13ish iirc) there are 2 extra junior grade tests leading to 9th - with a 3-6 month minimum (depending how young) in each, so it's not like grabbing extra test fees by doing weekly tests for the kids...
 

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Yeah, that's what I meant by individual and curriculum.

We have white (10th), yellow stripe (9th), then yellow (8th).

There's enough white belt material to grade to 9th kup to keep an average adult beginner going for the 3 month minimum time (or ~22 classes if that takes longer) in grade. Well, there is if you apply yourself to really learning it rather than just the minimum for the test ;)

For juniors (people starting aged about 7 up to around 13ish iirc) there are 2 extra junior grade tests leading to 9th - with a 3-6 month minimum (depending how young) in each, so it's not like grabbing extra test fees by doing weekly tests for the kids...
Actually, our white belt curriculum (10th kyu) is pretty deep for a beginner. The 9th kyu isn’t, it’s more or less 1 kata that’s quite similar to the 10th kyu kata, 2 new 1 steps, and a handful of hand techniques. The 10th and 9th kyu are 20 classes minimum for each one, which works out to 2 months each. The minimum bumps up to double that at 7th-5th kyu or so. So rather than test, my CI just starts teaching 9th kyu stuff when he feels the student’s ready. Once they’re ready to test for 8th kyu, he tests them. I’ve never had a conversation with him about it; I’ve just never seen him test an adult for 9th kyu. I’ve overheard him saying it’s not worth the student’s time to test that soon together. And he probably doesn’t want to nickel and dime them for testing fees like that either. The students wearing an 8th kyu belt are worthy of that rank, so there’s really no difference in the end.
 

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Actually, our white belt curriculum (10th kyu) is pretty deep for a beginner. The 9th kyu isn’t, it’s more or less 1 kata that’s quite similar to the 10th kyu kata, 2 new 1 steps, and a handful of hand techniques. The 10th and 9th kyu are 20 classes minimum for each one, which works out to 2 months each. The minimum bumps up to double that at 7th-5th kyu or so. So rather than test, my CI just starts teaching 9th kyu stuff when he feels the student’s ready. Once they’re ready to test for 8th kyu, he tests them. I’ve never had a conversation with him about it; I’ve just never seen him test an adult for 9th kyu. I’ve overheard him saying it’s not worth the student’s time to test that soon together. And he probably doesn’t want to nickel and dime them for testing fees like that either. The students wearing an 8th kyu belt are worthy of that rank, so there’s really no difference in the end.

I get what you're saying...

Our 9th doesn't introduce a whole raft of new stuff either, but there's an expectation that you'll be better (than you were) at the 10th stuff too.

9th is probably the colour grade that introduces the least new material. That may well be intentional - you're just getting over the huge lump that is starting from scratch, but still really finding your feet. Sort of almost a rest period where you work on refinement before getting into the next stage.

I can say personally that while I maybe didn't learn as much new material, I certainly learned more about it (and myself) by having that time to work on it.

Effectively, it sounds like you get to 'shortcut' your 9th rather than your 10th, but that's not the test you skip - make sense?

My disagreement with skipping is based on the curriculum and timescales that we follow - obviously that's going to differ wherever you go, but that's the frame of reference I have...
 

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I get what you're saying...

Our 9th doesn't introduce a whole raft of new stuff either, but there's an expectation that you'll be better (than you were) at the 10th stuff too.

9th is probably the colour grade that introduces the least new material. That may well be intentional - you're just getting over the huge lump that is starting from scratch, but still really finding your feet. Sort of almost a rest period where you work on refinement before getting into the next stage.

I can say personally that while I maybe didn't learn as much new material, I certainly learned more about it (and myself) by having that time to work on it.

Effectively, it sounds like you get to 'shortcut' your 9th rather than your 10th, but that's not the test you skip - make sense?

My disagreement with skipping is based on the curriculum and timescales that we follow - obviously that's going to differ wherever you go, but that's the frame of reference I have...
I get what you’re saying too. I agree with you’re views. Maybe I haven’t explained my CI’s method right...
The only thing being skipped is the 9th kyu test and wearing the belt (we sew a patch on the odd number kyu belts rather than a stripe). Time in grade, curriculum, and standards are same as if they tested for 9th kyu. If they’re not ready for 8th kyu, they wait until they are.
 

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I get what you’re saying too. I agree with you’re views. Maybe I haven’t explained my CI’s method right...
The only thing being skipped is the 9th kyu test and wearing the belt (we sew a patch on the odd number kyu belts rather than a stripe). Time in grade, curriculum, and standards are same as if they tested for 9th kyu. If they’re not ready for 8th kyu, they wait until they are.

Nah, that's fine.

I don't think I worded myself well - even I'm not sure I understand what I said ;)

We don't pay a huge amount to test, and I think the 'easy' first grading is good prep for the later ones too - different setup to class, in front of different people.

Neither way is bad, and I'm not saying the OPs is either. In a way, it'd be like if a KKW type 3rd kup (for example) came to our place, they'd likely do some sort of conversion testing rather than starting from absolute square one.

It only gets bad when you're put onto some sort of 'accelerated scheme' where you don't actually get to learn the material properly (the term 'black belt club' springs to mind...)
 

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Nah, that's fine.

I don't think I worded myself well - even I'm not sure I understand what I said ;)

We don't pay a huge amount to test, and I think the 'easy' first grading is good prep for the later ones too - different setup to class, in front of different people.

Neither way is bad, and I'm not saying the OPs is either. In a way, it'd be like if a KKW type 3rd kup (for example) came to our place, they'd likely do some sort of conversion testing rather than starting from absolute square one.

It only gets bad when you're put onto some sort of 'accelerated scheme' where you don't actually get to learn the material properly (the term 'black belt club' springs to mind...)
I just tested for and was promoted to 2nd kyu last night. Like all the other adults, I skipped 9th kyu. I also skipped 7th kyu. I was tested for each rank but those two. But there’s a catch... I was a 1st dan and preparing for my 2nd dan test when I left my previous dojo to go to grad school. Almost 15 years later, I finally had time to start training again. Different teacher, different organization. The curriculum is about 90% identical between them, as the head of my previous organization left the organization I’m now in. I remembered all my material (surprisingly) from back then; it was just a matter of getting the rust out and fine tuning it to my current organization’s ways. Other than the 2 skipped ranks, I’ve easily met the minimum time in grade for every rank. My current organization has a few things in addition to my previous organization’s syllabus, so for most ranks I’ve learned one or two new things. A lot of places would’ve fast-tracked me. Several offered when I made initial contact inquiring about their school. A different dojo in my former organization (my former sensei moved the dojo too far away) would’ve allowed me to wear my black belt. After all, I did earn it under them. I didn’t want any of that; I wanted a fresh start. One of the things that really turned me on to my current school was the CI said I’d start at white belt and progress at near a regular pace. I might jump a rank or two, but I’m not going to get a black belt in record time.

I’ve been there 3 years. Minimum time in grade until my 1st dan test is 18 months from now (it’s actually a number of classes thing, but 18 months would be 2-3 nights a week). I think it’ll be closer to 2 years. I’m in no rush. Been there, done that. So when all’s said and done, probably 5 years to 1st dan (so long as I don’t get seriously sick, injured, etc.). Most others do it in 6ish years.

My teacher is more conservative than the norm in our organization when it comes to testing. We test under our founder for dan ranks. In his 30 years as a CI, he hasn’t had anyone fail a dan test. A good number of people fail it from other schools.
 

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I just tested for and was promoted to 2nd kyu last night. Like all the other adults, I skipped 9th kyu. I also skipped 7th kyu. I was tested for each rank but those two. But there’s a catch... I was a 1st dan and preparing for my 2nd dan test when I left my previous dojo to go to grad school. Almost 15 years later, I finally had time to start training again. Different teacher, different organization. The curriculum is about 90% identical between them, as the head of my previous organization left the organization I’m now in. I remembered all my material (surprisingly) from back then; it was just a matter of getting the rust out and fine tuning it to my current organization’s ways. Other than the 2 skipped ranks, I’ve easily met the minimum time in grade for every rank. My current organization has a few things in addition to my previous organization’s syllabus, so for most ranks I’ve learned one or two new things. A lot of places would’ve fast-tracked me. Several offered when I made initial contact inquiring about their school. A different dojo in my former organization (my former sensei moved the dojo too far away) would’ve allowed me to wear my black belt. After all, I did earn it under them. I didn’t want any of that; I wanted a fresh start. One of the things that really turned me on to my current school was the CI said I’d start at white belt and progress at near a regular pace. I might jump a rank or two, but I’m not going to get a black belt in record time.

I’ve been there 3 years. Minimum time in grade until my 1st dan test is 18 months from now (it’s actually a number of classes thing, but 18 months would be 2-3 nights a week). I think it’ll be closer to 2 years. I’m in no rush. Been there, done that. So when all’s said and done, probably 5 years to 1st dan (so long as I don’t get seriously sick, injured, etc.). Most others do it in 6ish years.

My teacher is more conservative than the norm in our organization when it comes to testing. We test under our founder for dan ranks. In his 30 years as a CI, he hasn’t had anyone fail a dan test. A good number of people fail it from other schools.

And a lot of that there goes to the 'individual' part of my earlier statement ;)

You had fairly extensive and relevant prior knowledge, which you chose to reinforce properly.

That's where a skip can be justified imo.
 

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And a lot of that there goes to the 'individual' part of my earlier statement ;)

You had fairly extensive and relevant prior knowledge, which you chose to reinforce properly.

That's where a skip can be justified imo.

I can always get better. Having a new belt won’t make me any better or worse. I chased rank during my first stint. Now I’m just chasing improvement. I’m better in every way now than I was back then. Except flexibility and some roundness :) I’m faster, stronger, smarter, and can take a hit better.

My CI offered to let me skip 5th kyu. I said “with all due respect, it makes no difference to me. Whatever you think is best.” I didn’t skip the rank. In the grand scheme of things, what would it have done? Put me a few months closer to black belt? What would that have done for me? Being tested for 1st dan will be an honor, doesn’t matter when it happens.
 

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Nah, that's fine.

I don't think I worded myself well - even I'm not sure I understand what I said ;)

We don't pay a huge amount to test, and I think the 'easy' first grading is good prep for the later ones too - different setup to class, in front of different people.

Neither way is bad, and I'm not saying the OPs is either. In a way, it'd be like if a KKW type 3rd kup (for example) came to our place, they'd likely do some sort of conversion testing rather than starting from absolute square one.

It only gets bad when you're put onto some sort of 'accelerated scheme' where you don't actually get to learn the material properly (the term 'black belt club' springs to mind...)
I forgot to mention earlier... I never understood the whole “Black Belt Club” thing. Isn’t everyone there preparing for a black belt? Or at least they should be. For the ones who are black belts, do they need a club? Doesn’t the belt say that by itself? Other than making the teacher extra money, I’m dumbfounded by it. There’s probably something I’m missing here though.
 

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I forgot to mention earlier... I never understood the whole “Black Belt Club” thing. Isn’t everyone there preparing for a black belt? Or at least they should be. For the ones who are black belts, do they need a club? Doesn’t the belt say that by itself? Other than making the teacher extra money, I’m dumbfounded by it. There’s probably something I’m missing here though.

Most times, I think it's a money thing.

They can sell you, as a new starter, a guaranteed black belt for a fixed fee - "we'll provide as much training as you need" deal. Only, unfortunately, it seems common that they just lower the standards to get people through faster...

Or the 'club' for the black belts, where they pay extra per month so they can get a patch. Whoop-de-do...

The only thing remotely near that's offered where I go is periodic sets of additional classes where the instructors can focus on a particular grade/rank (we can attend any lower one, but nothing higher than the grade we hold). There's an additional fee, but knowing how many attend and things like how much the hall rent costs, they're not doing much over breaking even.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Most times, I think it's a money thing.

They can sell you, as a new starter, a guaranteed black belt for a fixed fee - "we'll provide as much training as you need" deal. Only, unfortunately, it seems common that they just lower the standards to get people through faster...

Or the 'club' for the black belts, where they pay extra per month so they can get a patch. Whoop-de-do...

The only thing remotely near that's offered where I go is periodic sets of additional classes where the instructors can focus on a particular grade/rank (we can attend any lower one, but nothing higher than the grade we hold). There's an additional fee, but knowing how many attend and things like how much the hall rent costs, they're not doing much over breaking even.
I remember seeing that in some of the old material I used to get - maybe NAPMA or MAIA? I think it was Steven Oliver. Anyway, it advocated having a BB club to increase revenue, with no justification of additional value (that I can recall) to the student.
 

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Update. Still here, and still training. This is my third week, and I am pretty happy so far. I like an exercise that engages the mind, and TKD seems to fit the bill there. Some kicks are easier for my aging muscles and tendons to do. I am doing more work before class loosening up my hips and groin. Helps with the roundhouse and hook kicks. It is hard to tell yet, but I feel like my conditioning is already a bit better than it was my first week.

It really doesn't matter, but as far as belt testing goes, the master already told me I can skip over high white and test for yellow, probably as soon as next month.

That's really great to hear mate :). Great to hear you're enjoying it, and also that you're looking after your body with extra warmups, and that you're conditioning is already improving. Keep at it :)

Great news about your grading as well, it's quite an honour to be told you can skip, a credit to you. Keep us posted :)
 

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I just tested for and was promoted to 2nd kyu last night. Like all the other adults, I skipped 9th kyu. I also skipped 7th kyu. I was tested for each rank but those two. But there’s a catch... I was a 1st dan and preparing for my 2nd dan test when I left my previous dojo to go to grad school. Almost 15 years later, I finally had time to start training again. Different teacher, different organization. The curriculum is about 90% identical between them, as the head of my previous organization left the organization I’m now in. I remembered all my material (surprisingly) from back then; it was just a matter of getting the rust out and fine tuning it to my current organization’s ways. Other than the 2 skipped ranks, I’ve easily met the minimum time in grade for every rank. My current organization has a few things in addition to my previous organization’s syllabus, so for most ranks I’ve learned one or two new things. A lot of places would’ve fast-tracked me. Several offered when I made initial contact inquiring about their school. A different dojo in my former organization (my former sensei moved the dojo too far away) would’ve allowed me to wear my black belt. After all, I did earn it under them. I didn’t want any of that; I wanted a fresh start. One of the things that really turned me on to my current school was the CI said I’d start at white belt and progress at near a regular pace. I might jump a rank or two, but I’m not going to get a black belt in record time.

I’ve been there 3 years. Minimum time in grade until my 1st dan test is 18 months from now (it’s actually a number of classes thing, but 18 months would be 2-3 nights a week). I think it’ll be closer to 2 years. I’m in no rush. Been there, done that. So when all’s said and done, probably 5 years to 1st dan (so long as I don’t get seriously sick, injured, etc.). Most others do it in 6ish years.

My teacher is more conservative than the norm in our organization when it comes to testing. We test under our founder for dan ranks. In his 30 years as a CI, he hasn’t had anyone fail a dan test. A good number of people fail it from other schools.

CONGRATS on 2nd kyu, massive step! How did the grading go, how did you pull up the next day? Well done :)

And great attitude to have regarding just wanting a fresh start, and not pushing to grade faster. I'm the same in that I'm there to learn and become better, sometimes looking only at the belts can stifle that true progress I reckon. And of course mainly there for the enjoyment of training itself, where it leads me is up to where it leads me :)
 

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Most times, I think it's a money thing.

They can sell you, as a new starter, a guaranteed black belt for a fixed fee - "we'll provide as much training as you need" deal. Only, unfortunately, it seems common that they just lower the standards to get people through faster...

Or the 'club' for the black belts, where they pay extra per month so they can get a patch. Whoop-de-do...

The only thing remotely near that's offered where I go is periodic sets of additional classes where the instructors can focus on a particular grade/rank (we can attend any lower one, but nothing higher than the grade we hold). There's an additional fee, but knowing how many attend and things like how much the hall rent costs, they're not doing much over breaking even.
I understand the “black belt plans.” Those are where you pay a set amount, and it covers tuition and testing fees all the way through your 1st dan. A great idea on paper - pay a set amount, say $3k; no other charges until you’re promoted to 1st dan, except uniforms and other equipment. If it takes the quoted average of 4-5 years or 20 years to get your 1st dan, it’s still the same $3k.

There’s several local TKD schools who do this. One of them ONLY works this way. Here’s the funny thing: they say 4-5 years on average, yet I haven’t met anyone who did it in more than 2 1/2 years. Except my uncle :) He was paying monthly, then a year later figured out the black belt plan was cheaper, so he signed up. Oddly enough, once he signed that contract, he was promoted in less than half the required time, every time. They kept telling him he’s learning really fast and he shouldn’t be held back. 2 years in, and suddenly he’s ready for his 1st dan test. When he figured out their scam, he started telling them he’s not ready yet. He wore his red belt for 3 years, refusing to test for 1st dan. He figured they told him it would be 5 years, so it should take 5 years. Finally after his 5 year total, he tested and passed his 1st dan test. Then came another scam - his test was included in the fee, but the actual belt wasn’t (unlike the colored belts). They wanted $250 for his belt. He laughed and told them to keep it.

I’ve heard the same thing from others in those plans from other places. It’ll take 5 years at a month to month or annual tuition plan. It’ll take 2 and a half under the black belt plan. Then comes the 2nd dan plan. Pathetic.
 

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