Stance Training

[marlon]

How many shaolin kempo practitioners and teachers continue stance training after the itermediate level? I find the higher stances of shaolin kempo more effiecient for combat but improper basics leaves the higher stance unstable and unidimensional. Any thoughts?

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[MJS]

Stances/footwork and basics should go hand in hand. Theres no reason why one should neglect this area at the higher ranks.

Mike

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i think people put too much focus on stances......as they are simply snapshots in time of transitions from one movement to another.
if you're in a stance, you're standing still.....and then you're in trouble.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

i think people put too much focus on stances......as they are simply snapshots in time of transitions from one movement to another.
if you're in a stance, you're standing still.....and then you're in trouble.

Hmm, interesting perspective considering a cat will stay very still prior to the attack. I've actually found staying still not only saves energy but gives me the advantage of moving once I see the attack.

DarK LorD

 

[marlon]

Transition and fluidity are essential and only effective if you can strike with sufficient power. A mobile base is at the heart of shaolin kempo and still we need to be able to root, if only momentarily, in order to strike with sufficient power. Without proper stance training this cannot be done (imo). Too many look for the lucky 'tag' and can gain no real control over the aggressor or themselves due to underdeveloped stance training, little knowlegde of the purpose or most useful application of a stance, underdeveloped ability to transit from stance to stance and ability to fight from a given stance logically and effectively, knowing that the base although mobile is still your base. SK states that you can fight from anywhere, yet you still need to be strong and to root as you transit


Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Hmm, interesting perspective considering a cat will stay very still prior to the attack. I've actually found staying still not only saves energy but gives me the advantage of moving once I see the attack.

DarK LorD

is the cat standing still while he is fighting?

 

[Matt Stone]

is the cat standing still while he is fighting?

Yes, often.

Stances are used to maintain stability and generate power. They are not held during fighting (unless one uses a "fighting stance" to fire techniques from), but assumed for the split second that a technique lands.

No stance, no stability. No stability, no power. No power, well, you get the picture...

Those who neglect their stance training will, undoubtedly, have much weaker technique than those who do not. The stances are there for a reason. Picking and choosing what parts of your art you care to practice isn't really an option, regardless of what some folks think nowadays...

 

[BlackCatBonz]

ive never seen a cat stand still while fighting.......ive had cats all my life.
in fact i have 2 right now that fight all the time......and i have never seen them stand still.
funny that

 

[Doc]

Yes, often.

Stances are used to maintain stability and generate power. They are not held during fighting (unless one uses a "fighting stance" to fire techniques from), but assumed for the split second that a technique lands.

No stance, no stability. No stability, no power. No power, well, you get the picture...

Those who neglect their stance training will, undoubtedly, have much weaker technique than those who do not. The stances are there for a reason. Picking and choosing what parts of your art you care to practice isn't really an option, regardless of what some folks think nowadays...

WELL SAID MR. STONE.

 

[Matt Stone]

ive never seen a cat stand still while fighting.......ive had cats all my life.
in fact i have 2 right now that fight all the time......and i have never seen them stand still.
funny that

Let's not neglect the silly little fact that you are not, in fact, a cat.

Cats will "grapple," they will bat at each other while standing still and "posing" to intimidate each other. However, to infer that a human (bipedal with no natural weapons) should physically imitate or even take theoretical guidance form a cat (quadrupedal with claws and teeth and significant differences in physiology) is absurd.

Fight like a person, since that's what you are.

 

[MJS]

i think people put too much focus on stances......as they are simply snapshots in time of transitions from one movement to another.
if you're in a stance, you're standing still.....and then you're in trouble.

Yes and No. You can still be in a stance and have movement. Look at a boxer for example. They are in a stance, so to speak, while they are moving and throwing punches, bobbing, weaving, etc.

Mike

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Let's not neglect the silly little fact that you are not, in fact, a cat.

Cats will "grapple," they will bat at each other while standing still and "posing" to intimidate each other. However, to infer that a human (bipedal with no natural weapons) should physically imitate or even take theoretical guidance form a cat (quadrupedal with claws and teeth and significant differences in physiology) is absurd.

Fight like a person, since that's what you are.

a human has no natural weapons? that is absurd

 

[Doc]

a human has no natural weapons? that is absurd

Homo sapien has evolved to the point where they have no natural weapons per se, but have may use their body as weapons outside the norm of daily existence.

A cats claws, as an example ARE natural weapons, as a dogs teeth, a snakes fangs, and a birds beak, etc. All there and in the evolutionary process designed to be used on a daily basis as a NATURAL weapon to allow the species to survive. Man does not possess the NATURAL strength, agility, or natural weapons of its nearest genetic equivallent. However that does not preclude man from DEVELOPING natural weapons. The difference is animals that possess them, have them naturally and no developement is necessary. Animals fight effectively instinctively, no training necessary. A man's hands MAY punch but is not designed to, and without developemental skills will probably break if used as a weapon, etc.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Homo sapien has evolved to the point where they have no natural weapons per se, but have may use their body as weapons outside the norm of daily existence.

A cats claws, as an example ARE natural weapons, as a dogs teeth, a snakes fangs, and a birds beak, etc. All there and in the evolutionary process designed to be used on a daily basis as a NATURAL weapon to allow the species to survive. Man does not possess the NATURAL strength, agility, or natural weapons of its nearest genetic equivallent. However that does not preclude man from DEVELOPING natural weapons. The difference is animals that possess them, have them naturally and no developement is necessary. Animals fight effectively instinctively, no training necessary. A man's hands MAY punch but is not designed to, and without developemental skills will probably break if used as a weapon, etc.

well doc.....i will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.
animals do no fight "effectively" instinctively. they simply fight because of the need for dominance in the pride, pack, etc.....or the opportunity to mate, the strongest male wins, ensuring a strong pack, pride, etc. they do not study fighting.....but they may playfight as they grow (the same way we humans do in the study of martial arts etc.). the animals use what they have at their disposal, which happens to be teeth, claws or fangs. humans possess teeth which are capable of biting, and hands and feet capable of hitting, which they probably used as the need arose in the same way other animals did, sure they may get broken, but i think animals may suffer the same fate during their own battles with the loser often dying or being ostracized....... obviously the human brain is more capable than other animals which allowed us to make and use tools for survival.....we developed as we did.....and here we are at the top of the land based food chain.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Yes and No. You can still be in a stance and have movement. Look at a boxer for example. They are in a stance, so to speak, while they are moving and throwing punches, bobbing, weaving, etc.

Mike

if i see a boxer who is rooted and weaving.....it's probably because he is in the 12th round and out of steam.
if you are in a stance....(you might be moving if you want to get technical and speak of muscle tone and the minutiae of movement)you are standing still.

 

[Sapper6]

i think people put too much focus on stances......as they are simply snapshots in time of transitions from one movement to another.
if you're in a stance, you're standing still.....and then you're in trouble.

stances are THE basic learning tool in any system. basics are the foundation on which techniques are built. you neglect the stance training, you neglect your base. you lack a solid base, you very well may lack power, balance, lower body coordination, or anything else that relates to such.

you ever seen a house that was built upon a poor foundation? won't last long.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

a house doesnt really need to move......does it

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

a house doesnt really need to move......does it

Does an Earthquake count?


DarK LorD

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Does an Earthquake count?


DarK LorD

lol

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i would just like to say.....we were originally talking about people. not cats, not houses, not animals.