igillman
Purple Belt
I sense much anger in you. Anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering. Training I forbid.
Sparring Advice: Opponent With Back Turned
- Thread starter HM2PAC
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I sense much anger in you. Anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering. Training I forbid.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
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Wait, these are actually blackbelts that are sparring you like that????!!?
- Thread Starter
- #25
BrandonLucas wrote:
Yeah, neat eh?
They are both really nice people, however, once on the mat I make them earn every score they get on this Yellow Belt. Then I back them into a corner and make them "turtle".:whip: They are younger than I am, less aggressive than I am, and have no training other than ATA. They are becoming accustomed to getting hit in ways they are not used to though.
Yeah, neat eh?
They are both really nice people, however, once on the mat I make them earn every score they get on this Yellow Belt. Then I back them into a corner and make them "turtle".:whip: They are younger than I am, less aggressive than I am, and have no training other than ATA. They are becoming accustomed to getting hit in ways they are not used to though.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
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Yeah, it sometimes makes it hard to hand out a beating if the guys are nice off the matt...but once they start sparring like that, it's easy to remember why the need the lesson.
And, no offense against you by any means, but as a yellow belt, even if you're older and more aggressive, you shouldn't be giving them a run for their money at all. That is, unless you have prior experience in another art...if that's the case, let 'em have it!
Nice Topic! Well.....There are (were) some shcools in my area (a couple have shut down) that sparred with a back facing posture. My friend zDom knows about these folks as well. He and I have sparred many of them. Now, at the point game, they do OK. I have never understood why the center ref. never cautioned them about 'turning their back' to their opponet. Mostly these competitors only use one leg and arm.
Also, I might add, not only did they turn their back to you, they also leaned their upperbody and head away from you at the same time. I always aimed for the back of their head, or, kick them in the kidney and take the warning.
I beleive this 'style' of sparring posture is just plain wrong, and its not condusive to defending yourself, and since training is highly speciffic, well...you get the picture.
Also, I might add, not only did they turn their back to you, they also leaned their upperbody and head away from you at the same time. I always aimed for the back of their head, or, kick them in the kidney and take the warning.
I beleive this 'style' of sparring posture is just plain wrong, and its not condusive to defending yourself, and since training is highly speciffic, well...you get the picture.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
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I just thought about this, and it's slightly off-topic, but not entirely...
I remember watching a Japenese(?) MMA fighter that fought in a similar position...the whole match was cool, though...it was like a tag-team MMA event, and I can't for the life of me remember the name of the guy or the federation.
But anywho, that dude was actually pretty awesome...he had the most unique style of fighting I've ever seen...he would roll toward his opponent and grapevine for leg-lock style takedowns...very unorthodox.
Just thought I would throw that out there. If anyone actually knows what I'm talking about, please refresh my memory as to who that guy is.
igillman
Purple Belt
Sounds like they need to wash their belts to get the original colour back.
- Thread Starter
- #30
BrandonLucas wrote:
No offense taken Brandon. I have extensive training in SD and a couple of years of Hung Gar, wrestling, boxing,yada yada yada. The people in our school are good people, but for the most part have no experience outside of TKD, and ATA TKD at that.
They are very receptive to learning from NOOB's though. Especially when I am able to take postures and stances that they have trouble defending. Both of the turtles want to learn some of my opening stances and why I use them. I don't always lead with a side profile in a traditional fighting stance, which really throws them for a loop. They also have trouble with angled attacks that re-direct their line of fire.
I know a lot of people don't care for ATA, (I'm almost one of them), but overall, it's not so bad. I'm trying to focus on the positives and let the negatives roll like water off the proverbial ducks back. A strong history in traditional MA keeps me balanced and obviously competitive.
No offense taken Brandon. I have extensive training in SD and a couple of years of Hung Gar, wrestling, boxing,yada yada yada. The people in our school are good people, but for the most part have no experience outside of TKD, and ATA TKD at that.
They are very receptive to learning from NOOB's though. Especially when I am able to take postures and stances that they have trouble defending. Both of the turtles want to learn some of my opening stances and why I use them. I don't always lead with a side profile in a traditional fighting stance, which really throws them for a loop. They also have trouble with angled attacks that re-direct their line of fire.
I know a lot of people don't care for ATA, (I'm almost one of them), but overall, it's not so bad. I'm trying to focus on the positives and let the negatives roll like water off the proverbial ducks back. A strong history in traditional MA keeps me balanced and obviously competitive.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
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The fact that they are very receptive to learning from a "noob"....well, not really a "noob", but an underbelt to them...is a great thing. It shows that they have a willingness to learn and to accept knowledge from anyone who can give it.
It isn't an easy thing to be aggressive with someone who is a genuinely nice person. I have someone like that in the class that I go to: he's a great guy, and loves to talk all day about anything at all, but he's just a wild sparrer. He has no control, and he's also a pretty strong guy.
The thing is, people need to learn how to defend themselves correctly, and someone who spars wildly or someone who "turtles up" when they spar are not learning the correct way to defend themselves. I really think that if you ever tried to talk to them about it, they may change things up...that could work better than just "pounding on them".
On the ATA side of things...the 2 biggest problems I have with it is the number of belts they have and the training method...most ATA schools that I've seen don't spar with any contact at all. Yours may be different on the sparring issue. But with having a camo belt...that kinda throws you off a little.
But, the main thing is that if you are receiving good training and you're satisified with where you're at in your training, then don't worry about others opinions about ATA.
- Thread Starter
- #35
BrandonLucas wrote:
As obvious as it sounds to just talk to people, I'm embarrassed to say it never occurred to me. Thing is, I think I'm going to see this "fighting" stance in tourneys, and I want/need a counter.
Our school goes 50-75% of full force/contact. I keep it toned down, but they still complain a bit and say I'm using too much force. It frustrates me quite a bit.
Honestly, if I could talk my wife into going elsewhere I would. I've tried and that isn't a battle I should win. I could, but it would be a huge tactical error on the eastern front. That and I do enjoy it for the most part. Except they won't let me punch at the head. Not allowed to feint at the head either. Utterly ridiculous in my view.
So tomorrow my goal is to kick BB's in the head. So far no one has taken my head, and I plan on it staying that way for as long as I possibly can. I may even use it as a friendly jab in the ribs.:ultracool
As obvious as it sounds to just talk to people, I'm embarrassed to say it never occurred to me. Thing is, I think I'm going to see this "fighting" stance in tourneys, and I want/need a counter.
Our school goes 50-75% of full force/contact. I keep it toned down, but they still complain a bit and say I'm using too much force. It frustrates me quite a bit.
Honestly, if I could talk my wife into going elsewhere I would. I've tried and that isn't a battle I should win. I could, but it would be a huge tactical error on the eastern front. That and I do enjoy it for the most part. Except they won't let me punch at the head. Not allowed to feint at the head either. Utterly ridiculous in my view.
So tomorrow my goal is to kick BB's in the head. So far no one has taken my head, and I plan on it staying that way for as long as I possibly can. I may even use it as a friendly jab in the ribs.:ultracool
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Empty Hands
Senior Master
So hitting to the head is dangerous, thus punches aren't allowed. Yet kicks, which are much stronger, are. What curious people.
Interesting concept. We can punch at the headgear in regular freesparring, tourney style we are restricted to kicks.
I am assuming that with added adrenalin the punches are a bit more of a risk, kicks to the head are not everybody's cup of tea.
I am assuming that with added adrenalin the punches are a bit more of a risk, kicks to the head are not everybody's cup of tea.
BrandonLucas
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If it helps any, our dojang doesn't allow hands to the head either. We used to a very long time ago...we stopped when I was a greenbelt, around '94. The reason we went with no hand contact to the head was because (and I was one of the ones guilty of this) we woud get into boxing matches with not much kicking involved. What kicking we did was toward the midsection.
I was actually not able to kick past my shoulder until my instructor changed our sparring habits. Every now and then, we'll go back to having some hand contact to the head. I was glad that the rules were changed when they were, because I was getting too complacent in standing in one spot and trading punches. It forced me to work on my flexiblity, and after a while, I became a "headhunter" when I sparred.
As far as trying to change schools, if you are satisified with your level of training, then don't worry about it. And if you're not, but it would cause issues with your wife, then try to train more at home in any freetime you may have. You're doing the right thing by not picking that battle to fight with her...as long as the training isn't making you worse...and it shouldn't be, from what you described.
But talking to those blackbelts could be a very eyeopening thing. We talk all the time after we spar in class about how to defend against what, what new moves we tried or are going to try next time, and we try to help eachother out. That's what it should be about in class anyway...helping out your classmates. And maybe you could point out to them that it's probably not a good idea to turn their back during a sparring match...and they may actually have some good advice for you as well. I think the key should be to communicate.
So good luck! Let us know how everything turns out.
I was actually not able to kick past my shoulder until my instructor changed our sparring habits. Every now and then, we'll go back to having some hand contact to the head. I was glad that the rules were changed when they were, because I was getting too complacent in standing in one spot and trading punches. It forced me to work on my flexiblity, and after a while, I became a "headhunter" when I sparred.
As far as trying to change schools, if you are satisified with your level of training, then don't worry about it. And if you're not, but it would cause issues with your wife, then try to train more at home in any freetime you may have. You're doing the right thing by not picking that battle to fight with her...as long as the training isn't making you worse...and it shouldn't be, from what you described.
But talking to those blackbelts could be a very eyeopening thing. We talk all the time after we spar in class about how to defend against what, what new moves we tried or are going to try next time, and we try to help eachother out. That's what it should be about in class anyway...helping out your classmates. And maybe you could point out to them that it's probably not a good idea to turn their back during a sparring match...and they may actually have some good advice for you as well. I think the key should be to communicate.
So good luck! Let us know how everything turns out.
