sometimes i just feel like throwing my hands up and walking away from this job

[Steve]

Correct a civilian

Damn... that's really terrible.

 

[jks9199]

Where is the justice dept on this. If it were reversed they would be charging the officers with civil rights violations. This is the hottest I've been in a long time my bloods boiling here.

Are you surprised that the Justice Department isn't touching this with a ten foot pole? They'll hang a cop even if a jury finds the cop not guilty... I know someone who had an FBI Special Agent on a ride-along/joint op thing when there was an officer involved shooting, and they responded. Before they got there, while they're still getting details, the FBI Special Agent was already scheming about what to charge the cop with. (Incidentally -- very clean, very justified shooting. Poor FBI had nothing to do...)

 

[jks9199]

The officers mom did take them to civil court and won a 5 million dollar judgement for wrongful death but the brothers said they won't pay her a dime.

They probably can't pay, anyway... but it's a symbolic victory.

I kind of like the idea of shunning... Wonder how long they'd last if the community would band together, and simply ignore them, and refuse to do business with them. Wanna buy gas? Sorry, we're out. Groceries? Darn, we can't take money today. Pizza delivered? Nope, we won't drive to your house.

 

[jks9199]

So, there was a deputy and a ride along. That's just another way of saying "civilian." Or do I have that wrong?

Sometimes. A ride-along is a person doing just that -- riding along. It's a chance to see what cops do, for real. Sometimes, it's a chance for a candidate to get a feel for a department, and vice-versa. (Yes, I know of candidates who got nixed because of conduct during a ride-along. It takes a lot -- but it can happen. More likely, it'd point to an area to pay a bit more attention to.) Sometimes, it's a cop from another area, who may or may not have jurisdiction. For example, ballen might decide to see what I do, and hit me up and do a ride-along. He's got no jurisdiction, but he's not really a "civilian", either.

 

[SavageMan]

As someone who works for the Department of Justice I can tell you with the Feds it's all about liability and their lack of it. Unless its something that will make them look good for a job well done on their part forget it. We once had a prosecuting attorney who let it slip that one of his goals before he retired was to put away a cop. As a LEO - CO we hear this and see our fellow officers killed by drunks, drug addicts and thugs, then we see the public outcry when one of these sleaze bags end up dead during an action taken. It's hard to keep up any kind of morale with that kind thing going on. There was once a two part solution to things like that. It was called a tall tree and a short rope. Sometimes I wonder if we weren't better off before all this politically correct BS when civil disobedience was solved with a fire hose and neighborhoods were kept in check by officers who weren't afraid of some ******** law suit.

Are you surprised that the Justice Department isn't touching this with a ten foot pole? They'll hang a cop even if a jury finds the cop not guilty... I know someone who had an FBI Special Agent on a ride-along/joint op thing when there was an officer involved shooting, and they responded. Before they got there, while they're still getting details, the FBI Special Agent was already scheming about what to charge the cop with. (Incidentally -- very clean, very justified shooting. Poor FBI had nothing to do...)

 

[Steve]

As someone who works for the Department of Justice I can tell you with the Feds it's all about liability and their lack of it. Unless its something that will make them look good for a job well done on their part forget it. We once had a prosecuting attorney who let it slip that one of his goals before he retired was to put away a cop. As a LEO - CO we hear this and see our fellow officers killed by drunks, drug addicts and thugs, then we see the public outcry when one of these sleaze bags end up dead during an action taken. It's hard to keep up any kind of morale with that kind thing going on. There was once a two part solution to things like that. It was called a tall tree and a short rope. Sometimes I wonder if we weren't better off before all this politically correct BS when civil disobedience was solved with a fire hose and neighborhoods were kept in check by officers who weren't afraid of some ******** law suit.

While I agree with the sentiment of protecting and supporting the guys on the front line, I am 100% confident that we are better off now than when people were lynched and the police beat the **** out of people with sections of a fire hose.

 

[SavageMan]

While I'm sure that my statements were taken by the majority as bias if not offensive I stand by it. When you have to go tell a parent that their child will never be coming home again or look at the faces of a fallen officers family you find some resentment in how the system has become so offender friendly. Then when you work for the system that houses and caterers to the worst of these offenders in the world and see that the only remorse they carry is the time they loose in getting caught. Stories like this can make you sick. The system has become weak because we as a society have become weak. There are no true examples of consequence anymore. The only time you hear about an execution in the news is by the bleeding hearts calling out for mercy. Did any of the victims get mercy. And then you get the general public saying things like "As an officer you know your putting your life at risk it's part of their job right?". We will never see our society start holding the offenders held truly accountable. Only when you become a victim or are close to a victim does the average person start screaming for justice. In our modern age it's much more acceptable to think that the authority figure, or the circumstance of the offenders past is to blame. Not the fact that the social filth could care less if they break the law , let alone hurt or kill some one in the process. And we can lay the blame on agencies like the DOJ, FBI or Internal Affairs go ahead pick one. But the truth is it starts with the group that says " We can't do that we're better than that." Funny how when we weren't better than that a person could send their kids to school without going through a metal detector, and police officers were considered heroes not potential pay days.

While I agree with the sentiment of protecting and supporting the guys on the front line, I am 100% confident that we are better off now than when people were lynched and the police beat the **** out of people with sections of a fire hose.

 

[ballen0351]

Another hard day today Baltimore Police officer Forrest "Dino" Taylor will be buried today. I'll be apart of the traffic detail for the procession. As we plan that today we morn the loss of another Maryland officer who was killed last night Harford County Officer Charles B. Licato dies in a single vehicle accident at approx 0230 hrs

 

[Tez3]

Another hard day today Baltimore Police officer Forrest "Dino" Taylor will be buried today. I'll be apart of the traffic detail for the procession. As we plan that today we morn the loss of another Maryland officer who was killed last night Harford County Officer Charles B. Licato dies in a single vehicle accident at approx 0230 hrs

:asian:

 

[Steve]

While I'm sure that my statements were taken by the majority as bias if not offensive I stand by it. When you have to go tell a parent that their child will never be coming home again or look at the faces of a fallen officers family you find some resentment in how the system has become so offender friendly. Then when you work for the system that houses and caterers to the worst of these offenders in the world and see that the only remorse they carry is the time they loose in getting caught. Stories like this can make you sick. The system has become weak because we as a society have become weak. There are no true examples of consequence anymore. The only time you hear about an execution in the news is by the bleeding hearts calling out for mercy. Did any of the victims get mercy. And then you get the general public saying things like "As an officer you know your putting your life at risk it's part of their job right?". We will never see our society start holding the offenders held truly accountable. Only when you become a victim or are close to a victim does the average person start screaming for justice. In our modern age it's much more acceptable to think that the authority figure, or the circumstance of the offenders past is to blame. Not the fact that the social filth could care less if they break the law , let alone hurt or kill some one in the process. And we can lay the blame on agencies like the DOJ, FBI or Internal Affairs go ahead pick one. But the truth is it starts with the group that says " We can't do that we're better than that." Funny how when we weren't better than that a person could send their kids to school without going through a metal detector, and police officers were considered heroes not potential pay days.

Our system is offender friendly because our founding fathers believed in the principles of "innocent until proven guilty." Stories like this do make me sick, and I am glad that there are people who are willing to put their lives on the lines to keep the peace. I am friends with many LEO, along with firefighters, EMTs and several active duty military soldiers out of joint base Lewis/McChord. I have nothing but respect for them, because they choose to put themselves out there as first responders.

But, their contributions are meaningless if the system in which they work is corrupt. Lynching people, vigilante justice, and abuses of power undermine their sacrifice and sully any positive works that they've done.

If the question is, "can we do better?" I believe that we can. But suggesting that we were better off when our cops were jackbooted thugs, little better than criminals with badges, I disagree completely.

I respect that you have an opinion, but frankly, we're a country governed by the rule of law.

 

[ballen0351]

:asian:

Thanks its going to be a rough one I hate crying in uniform and I'll def be shedding a few tears at the funeral today. 17 year vet with a wife and 4 kids RIP brother we will take it from here your time in hell is done.

 

[Tgace]

Im gonna float somewhere between the two points. I don't want to see us go back to the jackboot days either, but we really do have a problem with our legal system when "deals" are the goal vs trials and when probation after reduction after dismissal after "package deal" gets handed out over and over again to some of the animals in human skin we keep locking up.

 

[ballen0351]

Im gonna float somewhere between the two points. I don't want to see us go back to the jackboot days either, but we really do have a problem with our legal system when "deals" are the goal vs trials and when probation after reduction after dismissal after "package deal" gets handed out over and over again to some of the animals in human skin we keep locking up.

Problem is pleas are better for both defense atty and prosecutors its a conviction for the prosecution who only care about conviction rates and the defense can show other clients look what this guy was charged with and look at the deal I worked out. So that will never stop

 

[Steve]

Im gonna float somewhere between the two points. I don't want to see us go back to the jackboot days either, but we really do have a problem with our legal system when "deals" are the goal vs trials and when probation after reduction after dismissal after "package deal" gets handed out over and over again to some of the animals in human skin we keep locking up.

I agree. As I said, we can do better. But, in my opinion, "better" means looking at where the crime is coming from and cutting it out at the root, but we've talked about that in other threads. Once again, I absolutely believe that things can improve. But when someone suggests that the answer is lengths of fire hose, rope and a sturdy tree branch, aren't you a little concerned?

Ballen, part of the problem is also that our jails and prisons are full. Overall, our streets are safer than at any other period of time in our country, but we have more criminals than ever. We have a lot of stupid *** laws on the books that are clogging up our justice system, and entire demographics that are basically raised to participate.

 

[Tgace]

I agree. As I said, we can do better. But, in my opinion, "better" means looking at where the crime is coming from and cutting it out at the root, but we've talked about that in other threads. Once again, I absolutely believe that things can improve. But when someone suggests that the answer is lengths of fire hose, rope and a sturdy tree branch, aren't you a little concerned?

Ballen, part of the problem is also that our jails and prisons are full. Overall, our streets are safer than at any other period of time in our country, but we have more criminals than ever. We have a lot of stupid *** laws on the books that are clogging up our justice system, and entire demographics that are basically raised to participate.

I would hope that this was just frustration and hyperbole vs a belief that we can or should actually go back to lynch mobs.

 

[Tgace]

And while Im all for cutting out the problem at the root (if thats even possible) we still have to yank out the individual weeds before our entire lawn is nothing but dandelions.

 

[Steve]

And while Im all for cutting out the problem at the root (if thats even possible) we still have to yank out the individual weeds before our entire lawn is nothing but dandelions.

I like the metaphor, but your yard waste bin is overflowing from pulling all the weeds. Perhaps you need to consider preventing at least some of the weeds in the first place.

 

[Tgace]

We have been trying different yard treatments for many years. They always seem to keep coming back.

Anyway, Im a weed puller not a yard chemical scientist. And Im not about to let my yard run wild while I await the new miracle weed treatment.

 

[Tgace]

And I have found that, as long as I keep it up, if I keep pulling the weeds out of my lawn the grass stays green for a while. The problem is...unless I pull out the roots they keep coming back. But sometimes I notice that the ones that keep appearing get smaller and less obvious the more I pull them out. It's a never ending battle against the weed.

Of course they just seem to grow all the more on my neighbors lawns.....


(It actually is a pretty good metaphor as far as it goes )

 

[Steve]

And I have found that, as long as I keep it up, if I keep pulling the weeds out of my lawn the grass stays green for a while. The problem is...unless I pull out the roots they keep coming back. But sometimes I notice that the ones that keep appearing get smaller and less obvious the more I pull them out. It's a never ending battle against the weed.

Of course they just seem to grow all the more on my neighbors lawns.....


(It actually is a pretty good metaphor as far as it goes )

Not a bad metaphor. Two quick points. First, with the metaphor, we need to both manage the weeds we have and also prevent new weeds from growing.

Regarding the thread, there's a big difference between what you and I are talking about, and returning to the "good old days" when the police were, in some places, little more than the "enemy we know."