Snow in june...in Hawaii...

[Blade96]

Its called the Carbon Tax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax

In other words...another way for Big Brother to make a buck off of us who struggle to fill there gas tanks just to get to work and perpetuate the cycle.

What they are planning to do is tax the big corperations...and we all know where that fee goes..they hand it on down to the consumer.

Thts how come Liberal leader Stephane Dion got screwed in Canada....he wanted to bring in this carbon tax.

 

[billc]

Better that he was screwed, blade 96, than having him screw the canadian citizens with a carbon tax.

 

[Tez3]

Thts how come Liberal leader Stephane Dion got screwed in Canada....he wanted to bring in this carbon tax.

Lucky chap! That phrase means something wholly different here!


Naturalists here who have been keeping records for decades have logged that our climate is indeed getting warmer. Spring is coming earlier every year with some knock on effects for migrating birds etc. There is actually very little doubt that there is global warming happening BUT the cause is the reason people should be debating. Are we causing it, is it a natural movement, are we contributing to it, those are the questions that should be asked. Ignoring the fact that global warming is happening is sticking your head in the sand.
Cleaning up our pollution should be something we do as a matter of course whether or not it's causing or contributing to any global warming

Billcihak, putting up post after post one after the other swamping the thread won't make what you say any truer or your assertions from the media any less ridulous. I'm sure actually doing that is against the rules here or at least is discouraged.

 

[Blade96]

Lucky chap! That phrase means something wholly different here!

Tee hee

 

[Sensei Payne]

BTW if anyone was wondering who was the one of biggest players are and it is MR AL GORE and here is why.

Gore's involvement in environmental issues has been criticized. For example, he has been labeled a "carbon billionaire" and accused of profiting from his advocacy;[201] a charge which he has denied,[202] by saying, among other things, that he has not been "working on this issue for 30 years... because of greed".[201] A conservative Washington D.C. think tank, and a Republican member of Congress, among others, have claimed that Gore has a conflict-of-interest for advocating for taxpayer subsidies of green-energy technologies in which he has a personal investment.[202][203] Additionally, he has been criticized for his above-average energy consumption in using private jets, and in owning multiple, very large homes,[204] one of which was reported in 2007 as using high amounts of electricity.[205][206] Gore's spokesperson responded by stating that the Gores use renewable energy which is more expensive than regular energy and that the Tennessee house in question has been retrofitted to make it more energy efficient.[207][208] Philosopher A. C. Grayling defended Al Gore, arguing that Gore's personal lifestyle does nothing to impugn his message and that Gore's critics have committed the ad hominem fallacy.[209]
Data in An Inconvenient Truth have been questioned. In a 2007 court case, a British judge said that while he had "no doubt ...the film was broadly accurate" and its "four main scientific hypotheses ...are supported by a vast quantity of research,"[210] he upheld nine of a "long schedule" of alleged errors presented to the court. He ruled that the film could be shown to schoolchildren in the UK if guidance notes given to teachers were amended to balance out the film's one-sided political views. Gore's spokeswoman responded in 2007 that the court had upheld the film's fundamental thesis and its use as an educational tool.[211] In 2009, an interviewer asked Gore about the British court challenge and the nine "errors", and Gore responded, "the ruling was in my favour."[212]
Organizations including People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) criticized Gore for not advocating vegetarianism as a way for individuals to reduce their carbon footprint.[213] Gore agreed that meat production contributes to increased carbon emissions, but did not want to "go quite as far as ... saying everybody should become a vegetarian".[214] He said that although he is not a vegetarian, he has "cut back sharply" on his consumption of meat.[214]
When asked by Bjørn Lomborg to debate whether spending on health and education should take priority over limiting carbon emissions, Gore responded that he would not debate because the “scientific community has gone through this chapter and verse. We have long since passed the time when we should pretend this is a ‘on the one hand, on the other hand’ issue . . . . It’s not a matter of theory or conjecture."[215]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore


The Carbon Tax will continue to make the Rich, Richer!

 

[granfire]

BTW if anyone was wondering who was the one of biggest players are and it is MR AL GORE and here is why.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore


The Carbon Tax will continue to make the Rich, Richer!

LOL, many issues and that is all you got from that?

(hey, PETA criticized him, he can't be all bad!)

 

[billc]

Hmmm...this article talks about an unexpected reduction in sun spot activity that may lead to a Maunder minimum...hmmmm. Could this effect global temperature...wikipedia mentions this...

http://www.space.com/11960-fading-sunspots-slower-solar-activity-solar-cycle.html

from the article:

"Cycle 24 started out late and slow and may not be strong enough to create a rush to the poles, indicating we'll see a very weak solar maximum in 2013, if at all," Altrock said. "If the rush to the poles fails to complete, this creates a tremendous dilemma for the theorists, as it would mean that Cycle 23's magnetic field will not completely disappear from the polar regions. … No one knows what the sun will do in that case."
If the models prove accurate and the trends continue, the implications could be far-reaching

"If we are right, this could be the last solar maximum we'll see for a few decades," Hill said. "That would affect everything from space exploration to Earth's climate."

....................................................

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum

Little Ice Age
The Maunder Minimum coincided with the middle - and coldest part - of the Little Ice Age, during which Europe and North America were subjected to bitterly cold winters. Whether there is a causal connection between low sunspot activity and cold winters has not been proven; however, lower earth temperatures have been observed during low sunspot activity.[3] The winter of 1708-09 was extremely cold.[4]

............................................

Don't those space scientists know that people are warming up the planet and all this sun spot stuff could confuse people...

 

[Tez3]

Sigh, the Earth is warming up, the seas are rising and the polar ice caps are melting, there's very little doubt about that. The doubts are what's causing this, there is a good chance it's natural, after all the Earth has been warming and cooling for eons. However too many people are making political capital out of this inside of trying to help places that face being flooded out of existence, the Earth has never had an unchanging climate so why people think it doesn't change beats me.

Insistance on believing the Earth is not warming is ostrich like behaviour, the Earth may be warming naturally or it could be because we are polluting it. Surely though pollution is never going to be a good thing, whether or not it's causing the warming it would be best to cut down pollution as much as we can, for our and our childrens sake if nothing else.

 

[Mark Jordan]

Aloha, snow! I think that's because of the La Nina, which causes the Pacific ocean to cool. thus the wet storms that bring snow to Hawaii especially in the elevated areas.

 

[billc]

So, you agree with me Tez. Outside of the manmade part we agree on the rest of what you said. Of course there are those who believe we are now entering a cooling period after a 30 or so year warming period.

 

[CanuckMA]

The climate is changing. That is nor debatable. Neither is the fact that we have a level of influence on the rate at which it's changing. We're not the sole reason, but are a contributor. And there is nothing wrong with doing as much as we can to minimize or impact.

 

[Sensei Payne]

LOL I am not debating if the Earth is on a Warming or even a Cooling Trend right now...

I am arguing that the Global Elite are trying to make a buck off of it...even if its a natural stage of the Earth's "Life"

 

[crushing]

LOL I am not debating if the Earth is on a Warming or even a Cooling Trend right now...

I am arguing that the Global Elite are trying to make a buck off of it...even if its a natural stage of the Earth's "Life"

The banksters and lawyers are loving the profit potential of a carbon/emissions exchange. An emissions cap would mean an initial investment for the polluters to pay, with costs passed on (of course). But, trading emissions is an evergreen subscription to trickle up economics.

Also, http://www.google.com/search?q=NASA+sun+entering+cooling+period

 

[billc]

The political scope of global warming: A paper by Vaclav Klaus

http://www.klaus.cz/clanky/2830

From the paper:

If someone wants to reduce CO2 emissions, he must either expect a revolution in economic efficiency (which determines emissions intensity) or must start organizing a world-wide economic decline. Revolutions in economic efficiency – at least in relevant and meaningful time horizons – were never realized in the past and will not happen in the future either. It was the recent financial and economic crisis, not a technological miracle (nor preachings by Mr Pachauri) what brought about a slight reduction of CO2 emissions.

3. As someone who personally experienced central planning and attempts to organize the whole society from above, I feel obliged to warn against the arguments and ambitions which are very similar to those we had to live with decades ago. The arrogance with which the GWD alarmists and their fellow-travelers in politics and media want to suppress the market, control the society, dictate the prices (directly or indirectly by means of various interventions, including taxes) is something I know well from the past[10]. All the old, already almost forgotten economic arguments against communism should be repeated now. It is our duty to do so.

 

[elder999]

The political scope of global warming: A paper by Vaclav Klaus

http://www.klaus.cz/clanky/2830

From the paper:

If someone wants to reduce CO2 emissions, he must either expect a revolution in economic efficiency (which determines emissions intensity) or must start organizing a world-wide economic decline. Revolutions in economic efficiency – at least in relevant and meaningful time horizons – were never realized in the past and will not happen in the future either. It was the recent financial and economic crisis, not a technological miracle (nor preachings by Mr Pachauri) what brought about a slight reduction of CO2 emissions.

3. As someone who personally experienced central planning and attempts to organize the whole society from above, I feel obliged to warn against the arguments and ambitions which are very similar to those we had to live with decades ago. The arrogance with which the GWD alarmists and their fellow-travelers in politics and media want to suppress the market, control the society, dictate the prices (directly or indirectly by means of various interventions, including taxes) is something I know well from the past[10]. All the old, already almost forgotten economic arguments against communism should be repeated now. It is our duty to do so.

And again, I'll point out that imposing a cap and trade system on SO2 emissions, and forcing the utilities to implement reduction measures, has led to coal-fired power plants being capable of removing 99% of SO2 from their emissions-usually with little or no cost passed on to the consumer where utilities are regulated-as in no SO2 "tax". Of course, in the case of carbon emmissions, the technology would have to be developed, so whatever the utilities have to pay in the meantime, would be paid, and ample incentive for them to develop the technology for carbon-emission removal, sequestration and/or recycling just as it has proven to be in the case of SO2 and mercury.

Of course, no one says anything about the release of water from coal being the principle heat reaction, or that same water vapor being a greenhouse gas itself, but that's also neither here nor there, really-just a detail for me to throw out there. The facts, and past history, speak for themselves, and that history says that if we impose cap and trade on the utilities they'll come up with a way to reduce their emissions, and implement it-with little or no cost passed on to consumers.

 

[billc]

Another look at the manmade global warming scam...

http://bigjournalism.com/jdunetz/20...ms-to-spread-climate-change-hoax/#more-202060

from the article:

How about those horrible tornadoes this past spring? This claim is just as fraudulent, Fox News reported:​

Greg Carbin, the warning coordination meteorologist at NOAA’s Storm Prediction Center in Norman, Oklahoma, said warming trends do create more of the fuel that tornadoes require, such as moisture, but that they also deprive tornadoes of another essential ingredient: wind shear.
“We know we have a warming going on,” Carbin told Fox News in an interview Thursday, but added: “There really is no scientific consensus or connection [between global warming and tornadic activity]….Jumping from a large-scale event like global warming to relatively small-scale events like tornadoes is a huge leap across a variety of scales.”
Asked if climate change should be “acquitted” in a jury trial where it stood charged with responsibility for tornadoes, Carbin replied: “I would say that is the right verdict, yes.” Because there is no direct connection as yet established between the two? “That’s correct,” Carbin replied.

According to Grady Dixon, assistant professor of meteorology and climatology at Mississippi State University:

“If you look at the past 60 years of data, the number of tornadoes is increasing significantly, but it’s agreed upon by the tornado community that it’s not a real increase,”he said .
“It’s having to do with better (weather tracking) technology, more population, the fact that the population is better educated and more aware. So we’re seeing them more often,” Dixon said.
But he said it would be “a terrible mistake” to relate the up-tick to climate change.


.....................................................................

Of course, these guys are probably just shills for big...whatever...
​

 

[Sensei Payne]

FEAR

This is how the "green" movement is winning.

Of course I want a healthy enviroment, and I don't want to breath polluted air or drink polluted water...but I also don't want to pay more taxes to prevent those things from happening...they should just happen on there own.

 

[Tez3]

Another look at the manmade global warming scam...

http://bigjournalism.com/jdunetz/20...ms-to-spread-climate-change-hoax/#more-202060

from the article:

How about those horrible tornadoes this past spring? This claim is just as fraudulent, Fox News reported:​

Greg Carbin, the warning coordination meteorologist at NOAA’s Storm Prediction Center in Norman, Oklahoma, said warming trends do create more of the fuel that tornadoes require, such as moisture, but that they also deprive tornadoes of another essential ingredient: wind shear.
“We know we have a warming going on,” Carbin told Fox News in an interview Thursday, but added: “There really is no scientific consensus or connection [between global warming and tornadic activity]….Jumping from a large-scale event like global warming to relatively small-scale events like tornadoes is a huge leap across a variety of scales.”
Asked if climate change should be “acquitted” in a jury trial where it stood charged with responsibility for tornadoes, Carbin replied: “I would say that is the right verdict, yes.” Because there is no direct connection as yet established between the two? “That’s correct,” Carbin replied.

According to Grady Dixon, assistant professor of meteorology and climatology at Mississippi State University:

“If you look at the past 60 years of data, the number of tornadoes is increasing significantly, but it’s agreed upon by the tornado community that it’s not a real increase,”he said .
“It’s having to do with better (weather tracking) technology, more population, the fact that the population is better educated and more aware. So we’re seeing them more often,” Dixon said.
But he said it would be “a terrible mistake” to relate the up-tick to climate change.


.....................................................................

Of course, these guys are probably just shills for big...whatever...
​

You are saying there is a global warming scam going on but your own 'proof' states that there is global warming so it's hardly a scam is it? Yes there is global warming, I think just about everyone, apart from you and a few other Luddites, believe this. The cause of and the contributing factors to, this warming are what is in dispute. There is no global warming scam as such, it is real.

Sensei Payne, how is pollution going to clear itself up? If you are happy to live with the fact that some of your taxes are being spent causing this pollution surely some of your taxes can be spent clearing it up?

 

[Empty Hands]

Of course I want a healthy enviroment, and I don't want to breath polluted air or drink polluted water...but I also don't want to pay more taxes to prevent those things from happening...they should just happen on there own.

I want a Bentley, a yacht, and a mansion without having to pay for it either. TANSTAAFL.

 

[Sensei Payne]

I want a Bentley, a yacht, and a mansion without having to pay for it either. TANSTAAFL.

Clean Air and clean water are God given...they should be free...just like the freedoms of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness