Skip dan

[d1jinx]

Asked a simple question that resulted in replies that had nothing to do with the question. So heres a new spot to keep adding the new topic that seems to matter.

"ethical and moral rights and reasons for skip dan".

 

[NPTKD]

I have chosen to skip this thread..... in six months or so, I will probably get my skip thread certificate.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

That might make an interesting thesis for the grading.

 

[terryl965]

Yes it might but in all honesty I would never skip Dan for any rank, I have been a victim of fake cetificate and I am a 4th, sure I could be a 7th by now but in the end who really cares about stripes on there belt? It is about traing and teaching and that is the part that means everything to me.

 

[ennime]

Kinda off topic (sorry)... but I find the stripes on the belt kinda funny, cause nobody does that where I train (S-Korea)

 

[terryl965]

Kinda off topic (sorry)... but I find the stripes on the belt kinda funny, cause nobody does that where I train (S-Korea)

Really because I personnally know alot of Koreans that have stripes on there belts, like just about everyone at the Kukkiwon does. Maybe they just wear a plain BB when training but at formal events they have them on.

 

[jim777]

I have chosen to skip this thread..... in six months or so, I will probably get my skip thread certificate.

That will be $250 dollars, US. I'll PM you the adress you need to send it to...

 

[FieldDiscipline]

On the stripe thing, i found some interesting pics:

Also one of GM Bok Man Kim - without.

Personal preferences, people over here like it.

 

[Miles]

"ethical and moral rights and reasons for skip dan".

I agree with Terry-I have had to start over several times in my TKD career-never had a problem with it because it is the training that's important, not the belt. Like Terry, based on my age and time in the arts, I could be much higher ranked, but, hey that's life.

I look at rank as a privilege, not a right, so there are no ethical or moral rights involved.

As far as reasons for getting rank-skipped or not, the only one which comes to me is demonstrated competency to a higher authority.

 

[sempai little1]

Skipping dan's, really?
I worked hard for my first and second, I am currently working hard for my third.
I like to earn my ranks not have them handed to me or cheated.
They say you only cheat yourself, but boy would it rub me the wrong way if someone falsely claimed something as honourable an acheivement as a BB rank.

Your friend,
Sempai Little1 :wavey:

 

[hkfuie]

I skipped a dan rank. And there was a reason for it.

 

[Flying Crane]

OK, I'll fess up. It's my fault. This whole thread.

The topic of skipping Dan grades came up in another thread tho it was not the main topic of that thread. I couldn't help commenting on it, and one thing lead to another, and here we are now with a brand new thread.

So it's largely my fault that we have this thread.

I made most of my comments on the other thread, so I'll just say here that I can't understand it, I don't agree with the practice of it, I think it further undermines any meaning that rank has (as if there's any meaning left in it, what with kiddie black belts and other such nonsense).

The topic was first mentioned in the context of skipping from 4th to 6th Dan. I found that really disturbing. It presumes that 5th Dan is barely worth noticing, it's common as dirt, so just skip right over it and move on because good lord, who would ever admit to being just a lowly 5th Dan for gods sake.

Once upon a time, a fifth Dan represented a few decades of hard training, and a life dedicated to the martial arts. People who held that rank were few and far between.

Apparently that is no longer true. It's an easy enough rank to reach, so much so that it's common practice now (at least in some organizations) to just skip right over it if you feel up to it.

Oh and apparently, at least in some organizations, if you don't pass the test you can petition and argue the point with them.

good lord, the state of the Arts today...

 

[Twin Fist]

FC,
to a point you are right, but there is also something you are forgetting.

"back int he day" there were less than 100 karate studio's in the ENTIRE country, so 5th and above was indeed RARE.

This last weekend, while driving around Houston, in 15 minutes I saw TEN dojo's

there are more schools, so more students, so more 5th dans

it isnt ALL about the lowering of the bar

 

[KELLYG]

Would you be opposed to someone that skipped a Dan but truly deserved to? Example: A Martial Artists that has been in MA for 25 to 30 years with that have a skill set above and beyond their current rank and train on a regular basis. Sometimes Real life took presidence or the were "cheated" by a unscrupious instructor and were not able to test or prove their rank. Would this not be a good reason to skip Dan?

 

[sempai little1]

Sometimes Real life took presidence or the were "cheated" by a unscrupious instructor and were not able to test or prove their rank. Would this not be a good reason to skip Dan?

This happened to my husband,He was told that because he injured his foot and could not properly pull the toes on his left foot all the way back for a front kick he would never see his black belt.
When he found my dojo, he went right back down to white belt and retrained through ALL his testings.
He is now a Black Belt.
If someone held a 4th degree for 25-30 years there's more there then just life getting in the way. If they were cheated out of a grading by an instructor for that length of time they should have found a dojo honoured to have his/her knowledge long ago.

It's more then just time in the decides your dan. There are critiria, rules,katas, and what ever else your dojo deems fit.

We accually just had an instructor leave the dojo because he wasn't being given his next dan. He figured his katas were good enough, he taught weapons once a week. That was enough, he didn't want to put in class time, do the endurance, the technical, or the pretests.
He has his time in. Just wouldn't put the effort in.

Not saying that everyone who skips dan's are lazy oafs, but you need to follow the rules in order for the others to have respect for the rules.
I just can't see the point behind skipping.
Sorry if I offended anyone, it is simply my opinion

Your friend,
Sempai Little1 :wavey:

 

[Flying Crane]

Would you be opposed to someone that skipped a Dan but truly deserved to? Example: A Martial Artists that has been in MA for 25 to 30 years with that have a skill set above and beyond their current rank and train on a regular basis. Sometimes Real life took presidence or the were "cheated" by a unscrupious instructor and were not able to test or prove their rank. Would this not be a good reason to skip Dan?

I think that life ain't fair and that's all there is to it.

Nobody ever said that you deserved to get ranked on some schedule. Or if someone did say that, I'd recommend you find a new teacher who doesn't prescribe to that viewpoint.

Real life does get in the way at times. That doesn't mean you ought to skip dan gradings to "make up for lost time". There is no "lost time". There is no shame in remaining at the same rank for many years, even if you might have a skill level that would warrant a higher level. So what? Personally, I'd rather be under-ranked than take a chance at being over-ranked.

People gotta stop looking at rank as a prize. I get the feeling that people are seeing it as a prize an they think they are entitled to it.

I've seen references to people being "cheated" by their instructor, and I don't know exactly what that means. Give me an example, tho I would probably still be against skipping Dan ranks.

 

[jim777]

I've told this story before in another thread as well, but one of my brothers studies Shotokan from a now very old gentleman who got his 5th Dan from the Funakoshis, and his Shodan from Funakoshi Sensei himself.
This teacher got his 5th when 5th was as high as you could go, and broke from the JKA when they decided back int he 60's to go up a few higher. He has stopped testing his students, stopped taking new students, and teaches only the few that have been with him for years. Personally, I think he's also probably a little senile at this point, but that's besides the point.
Long story short, my brother (who is an excellent karateka IMHO) was Shodan for 17 years (and a student for 25) when his instructor announced at the end of class one day, "Charles, you are now Sandan. Buy yourself a new belt if you wish". I have no problem with that; moral, ethical, or otherwise. My brother did not replace his greying, well worn belt either.

 

[NPTKD]

One time I did indeed skip to my lou.....

 

[Flying Crane]

I've told this story before in another thread as well, but one of my brothers studies Shotokan from a now very old gentleman who got his 5th Dan from the Funakoshis, and his Shodan from Funakoshi Sensei himself.
This teacher got his 5th when 5th was as high as you could go, and broke from the JKA when they decided back int he 60's to go up a few higher. He has stopped testing his students, stopped taking new students, and teaches only the few that have been with him for years. Personally, I think he's also probably a little senile at this point, but that's besides the point.
Long story short, my brother (who is an excellent karateka IMHO) was Shodan for 17 years (and a student for 25) when his instructor announced at the end of class one day, "Charles, you are now Sandan. Buy yourself a new belt if you wish". I have no problem with that; moral, ethical, or otherwise. My brother did not replace his greying, well worn belt either.

I think that there can be exceptions that make sense. In the case of your brother, he had a long relationship with this sensei, and along the way rank simply didn't matter. Now, years later that same sensei bestowed rank upon him, and I don't have a problem with that.

The discussion that sparked my comments, that lead to this thread, painted a very different picture from that.

It involved people testing not with their instructor but rather with a big organization, kukkiwon and some other State-side org. I believe, and petitioning to skip one or more Dan grades in the test. I guess the candidate was allowed to determine the level for which he wished to test. And it sounds like there were substantial fees involved for the tests as well, more so if you wanted to skip levels.

Apparently nobody who requested to skip Dan grades was awarded the highest that they requested, but some were skipped nevertheless.

This kind of arrangement simply does not make sense to me. That is what sparked my comments.

 

[sempai little1]

Long story short, my brother (who is an excellent karateka IMHO) was Shodan for 17 years (and a student for 25) when his instructor announced at the end of class one day, "Charles, you are now Sandan. Buy yourself a new belt if you wish". I have no problem with that; moral, ethical, or otherwise. My brother did not replace his greying, well worn belt either.

Not so sure that was a skip so much as a push.
Your friend,
Sempai Little1 :wavey: