Skip Dan Test

[dvcochran]

Flying Crane suggested that martial arts schools be required to get childcare licenses. Where I'm at, there isn't a "supplemental" childcare license; an aftercare program is supposed to be licensed the same as a full-time daycare center. Lots of places don't actually do that and run illegal aftercare programs and just hope they don't get reported, but they're risking large fines and potentially even prison time by doing that. I wasn't comfortable with that risk, personally.

Supplemental program vary greatly. An example is an after school program for a specific school subject for grade school kids.

 

[pdg]

Supplemental program vary greatly. An example is an after school program for a specific school subject for grade school kids.

To me, that sort of supplemental programme is outside the remit of a martial arts school.

It almost becomes an MA themed daycare centre.

Then it becomes difficult to determine which activity is the supplemental activity - is it the daycare aspect, or is it the adult classes? Is it an MA school that happens to do an after school club, or is it a daycare centre that wants to have something to get the parents more involved?

In those cases I can see why a certification system for the real classes could possibly be considered useful. Maybe.

I've looked (admittedly briefly) and I can't find a single MA place over here that follows that business model.

Childcare is so heavily regulated, and the subject matter is part of the education curriculum, that it really wouldn't be viable - you could maybe get in a bit of MA themed exercise during a 15 minute break, but then it would raise the question of whether that's actually MA at all. Imo, no.

 

[dvcochran]

To me, that sort of supplemental programme is outside the remit of a martial arts school.

It almost becomes an MA themed daycare centre.

Then it becomes difficult to determine which activity is the supplemental activity - is it the daycare aspect, or is it the adult classes? Is it an MA school that happens to do an after school club, or is it a daycare centre that wants to have something to get the parents more involved?

In those cases I can see why a certification system for the real classes could possibly be considered useful. Maybe.

I've looked (admittedly briefly) and I can't find a single MA place over here that follows that business model.

Childcare is so heavily regulated, and the subject matter is part of the education curriculum, that it really wouldn't be viable - you could maybe get in a bit of MA themed exercise during a 15 minute break, but then it would raise the question of whether that's actually MA at all. Imo, no.

It is a not an uncommon model here. Sometimes times I think there needs to be a new name for the MA training kids get at these programs or whether it should be called MA at all. As long as it gets the kids moving and is some form of exercise it is not a bad thing.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It is a not an uncommon model here. Sometimes times I think there needs to be a new name for the MA training kids get at these programs or whether it should be called MA at all. As long as it gets the kids moving and is some form of exercise it is not a bad thing.

I always just add a little asterisk in my head when someone says they trained TKD/Karate "for a few years as a kid". Most of the time if I ask anything further, I find out they stopped around 10. Which is fine, but a bit misleading to say you "trained" in anything from 8-10 years old. I don't claim that I "trained" in baseball because I played little league.

 

[skribs]

Depends what you mean by teaching young children.

MA schools here don't do after school clubs, or homework clubs, or collection from school, or child minding... It's an MA club, not a substitute parent.

In fact, it's in the agreement at 'my' school that parents don't just ditch their kids and leave - if they're under about 9 or 10, if the parent leaves the kid goes with them.

Even so, it's expected that the instructors are background checked and have stuff like first aid training - no need to have regulations in place for that as every school I've heard about that teaches kids makes it known they have those things.

It's not a requirement at my school. There's usually enough parents there that there's witnesses to anything going on, we have big windows so everything in the school is publicly visible, and usually the Master and his wife are both present so there are both male and female adults present.

I used to open on Saturdays, and every once in a while the first parent would ask if they could drop off their kid, and I'd ask they at least stay until another parent arrives. (There were a couple times the parents just did a drive-by drop-off and it made me really uncomfortable).

We also do what I call reverse-bouncing. We keep the kids inside the establishment. If they can't see their parents in the parking lot, we don't even let them outside to look. The parent can come in and get them. Every once in a while the parent will yell at them (something like "I told you I'd be outside") and then I'll let the parent know that we ask them to stay inside if they can't point their parent out to us from the door.

 

[skribs]

I always just add a little asterisk in my head when someone says they trained TKD/Karate "for a few years as a kid". Most of the time if I ask anything further, I find out they stopped around 10. Which is fine, but a bit misleading to say you "trained" in anything from 8-10 years old. I don't claim that I "trained" in baseball because I played little league.

Almost everyone at my school who trained as a kid and then came back as an adult, it's been like riding a bike.

I trained wrestling for 3 years in middle school. I sucked then, but I can apply the techniques today (even though I haven't wrestled in 18 years). I played baseball in middle school. I also sucked then. But having not practiced in over a decade, I can throw, catch, and bat (and do all of those better than I did in middle school).

Someone training for a few years as a kid absolutely is developing skills they can use. If they go back and practice and apply those skills, anyway.

 

[skribs]

To me, that sort of supplemental programme is outside the remit of a martial arts school.

It almost becomes an MA themed daycare centre.

Then it becomes difficult to determine which activity is the supplemental activity - is it the daycare aspect, or is it the adult classes? Is it an MA school that happens to do an after school club, or is it a daycare centre that wants to have something to get the parents more involved?

In those cases I can see why a certification system for the real classes could possibly be considered useful. Maybe.

I've looked (admittedly briefly) and I can't find a single MA place over here that follows that business model.

Childcare is so heavily regulated, and the subject matter is part of the education curriculum, that it really wouldn't be viable - you could maybe get in a bit of MA themed exercise during a 15 minute break, but then it would raise the question of whether that's actually MA at all. Imo, no.

I think the Daycare aspect is less that you're providing daycare, and more that you're taking kids in for a program. Adults are legally responsible for themselves, but kids are not. When parents leave their kids with someone else, that other person has to be responsible for their kids.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Almost everyone at my school who trained as a kid and then came back as an adult, it's been like riding a bike.

I trained wrestling for 3 years in middle school. I sucked then, but I can apply the techniques today (even though I haven't wrestled in 18 years). I played baseball in middle school. I also sucked then. But having not practiced in over a decade, I can throw, catch, and bat (and do all of those better than I did in middle school).

Someone training for a few years as a kid absolutely is developing skills they can use. If they go back and practice and apply those skills, anyway.

But its still different than training in it. There is a hige difference between someone playing baseball in elementary school vs someone doing the same in high school or college.

 

[skribs]

But its still different than training in it. There is a hige difference between someone playing baseball in elementary school vs someone doing the same in high school or college.

Technically true, but I don't really see the point of this distinction. So what if it was a different time in their life? Training martial arts is different at 30 than at 15, different at 65 than at 45.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Technically true, but I don't really see the point of this distinction. So what if it was a different time in their life? Training martial arts is different at 30 than at 15, different at 65 than at 45.

Yep. And training as a kid is very different than training as an adult, or even a teenager. Hence the asterisk.

I also put an asterisk when i tell people how long I've trained...technically I've been training for two decades. If i really wanted to push it i could claim i trained over two decades (i started when i was 4 i think, and turned 26 yesterday, so at least 21 years). But people should be aware that one decade of that i wasnt even a teenager, so wach person can decide how much weight they put to my two decades.

 

[skribs]

Yep. And training as a kid is very different than training as an adult, or even a teenager. Hence the asterisk.

I also put an asterisk when i tell people how long I've trained...technically I've been training for two decades. If i really wanted to push it i could claim i trained over two decades (i started when i was 4 i think, and turned 26 yesterday, so at least 21 years). But people should be aware that one decade of that i wasnt even a teenager, so wach person can decide how much weight they put to my two decades.

.
You're way overcomplicating it. Training is training. Someone training at a young age will learn a lot of the stuff faster than an adult. Someone learning as an adult will learn from a higher conceptual level, but it will take longer to actually learn how to do things. Teenagers fall somewhat into both categories, but have the arrogance of adolescence get in their way. Every age has it's asterisk. It's simpler to let those asterisks cancel each other out.

You started training when you were young enough that it was something you grew up with. It is so ingrained into your life that you probably can't remember a time before martial arts. It is a part of you, and always has been. There's no need for an asterisk. It's time trained.

 

[WaterGal]

Supplemental program vary greatly. An example is an after school program for a specific school subject for grade school kids.

I think what you're talking about would be called an afterschool activity or afterschool enrichment program where I live. That doesn't require any kind of certification whatsoever.

Aftercare/childcare programs are distinct from afterschool activities, in that the program takes on legal responsibility for taking care of the child. They also generally either supervise the children in their elementary school, or they pick the child up from school and transport them to a facility somewhere else.

Contrast that with an after school activity such as Little League or most martial arts classes, where the parent typically brings the child to the place of instruction, remains nearby, and maintains legal responsibility for their wellbeing of their child.

 

[skribs]

I think what you're talking about would be called an afterschool activity or afterschool enrichment program where I live. That doesn't require any kind of certification whatsoever.

Aftercare/childcare programs are distinct from afterschool activities, in that the program takes on legal responsibility for taking care of the child. They also generally either supervise the children in their elementary school, or they pick the child up from school and transport them to a facility somewhere else.

Contrast that with an after school activity such as Little League or most martial arts classes, where the parent typically brings the child to the place of instruction, remains nearby, and maintains legal responsibility for their wellbeing of their child.

What about something where the parents bring the kids, but don't necessarily stay?

Although no daycare I know of ever had a shuttle service.

 

[JR 137]

What about something where the parents bring the kids, but don't necessarily stay?

Although no daycare I know of ever had a shuttle service.

Plenty of commercial daycare places around me have shuttle services. They’ll pick kids up from school. Some school districts will drop kids off to licensed daycare facilities via school bus after school. My wife’s friend runs a licensed daycare out of her house; 3 different schools districts bus kids there after school.

 

[WaterGal]

What about something where the parents bring the kids, but don't necessarily stay?

That's where the law can get a little complicated and subjective. Basically, are you presenting it as a class or as daycare? Are the kids doing martial arts (or dance, gymnastics, whatever) the whole time, or are they hanging out and playing with toys and stuff? Are they there for an hour? Two? Three? If you call the parents will they immediately come get their kid, are you expected to handle injuries, medical stuff, upset kids, etc?

Although no daycare I know of ever had a shuttle service.

How do they pick the school-aged kids up from school without a shuttle bus?

 

[skribs]

That's where the law can get a little complicated and subjective. Basically, are you presenting it as a class or as daycare? Are the kids doing martial arts (or dance, gymnastics, whatever) the whole time, or are they hanging out and playing with toys and stuff? Are they there for an hour? Two? Three? If you call the parents will they immediately come get their kid, are you expected to handle injuries, medical stuff, upset kids, etc?


How do they pick the school-aged kids up from school without a shuttle bus?

I think most of the daycares I've seen have been more of the pre-K variety.

There are school buses, but those are provided by the city, not by the daycare service.

 

[JR 137]

I think most of the daycares I've seen have been more of the pre-K variety.

There are school buses, but those are provided by the city, not by the daycare service.

Most of the daycares around me are infant-preschool age. They have after school care for elementary school children. Most of the kids getting bussed to the daycare places after school have siblings who are in daycare full time.

School districts will only bus kids who are enrolled in the school or school aged and living in the district (some districts will bus kids to private schools).

The local glorified daycare McDojo has a van that picks up kids from school. I don’t hate them for their daycare aspect; it’s their Tae Kwon Do that really sucks. “Take My Dough” is far more accurate of a name than Tae Kwon Do when it comes to that place.