skewed responses in the martial arts

[bushidomartialarts]

so here's something funny. and i mean funny weird, not funny ha ha.

as a result of some stuff in my life, i've been talking to somebody about my emotional responses of late. something odd turned up in the talking last night.

far as i can tell, i get much madder if somebody yells at me or insults me than if they hit me. i can see how this came about -- as a martial arts instructor i get hit a lot more often than the other.

my education is in psychology, so i can see how classical conditioning would make this true. it just really surprised me when i realized it.

does anybody else have this skewed reaction? or am i completely off my nut?

 

[Kacey]

does anybody else have this skewed reaction? or am i completely off my nut?

Well, I have seen it and I haven't... it depends on the circumstances. When someone hits me in class, I don't get mad... I start concentrating harder to cover the opening I got hit through. It's not intended to make me mad or cause an emotional response - it's practice with fighting. My friends all know about my involvement in TKD, and the few that take casual swipes are those who I know and trust well enough not to react.... anybody else... well... it really doesn't come up much.

When people call me names (unless it's a friend who's kidding around) it's usually intended as a negative, and has an emotional context that being hit doesn't have - so I do tend to react more emotionally - but it does still vary with the circumstances.

Still, I can see what you mean - I am more likely, in most situations, to be more upset by words than by being hit.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

kacey, i get what you're saying but here's the really strange thing.

since i've gotten higher up in the martial arts, i've been struck in anger three times by people who meant to harm or to rile me. that didn't really upset me. i found i was very calm under those circumstances.

but if somebody curses me out, man that eats me for days.

 

[Bigshadow]

It's probably a control thing! We can control people hitting us, but we cannot necessarily control someone yelling at us and/or not letting us get a word in edge-wise. There is a certain lack of control if it is all verbal, more specifically, yelling. Just some thoughtful reasoning.

 

[Carol]

Whoever said "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" was full of baloney.

When you get physically hurt you can do something and see results. You can block, defend, hit back, fight, or struggle. And/or you can take action...steps that would lead to a person being arrested or removed from their job, or slapped with a restraining order.

But words are tougher. You can't always do something in a verbal fight. It can be a battle of wits or it can lead to a person dwelling on something until the next verbal tangle. You don't get the release or the finality of a physical struggle.

If you look around at this forum and other forums, what do you find people angry about? Most posts show anger about politics and hurt feelings. The posts that show anger over hitting someone such as this post here do not show up quite as often.

So no...I don't think you are off your nut, nor do I think you are alone. In fact, I think you're in pretty good company

 

[Shaderon]

Could it be something to do with a hit being a result in itself, verbal insults are usually the precurser to something and a threat of something and that makes you feel that the person means you more harm than they already have done? Also with a hit, you have the release of the possibility of hitting back, with verbal abuse, you would be the agresor if you hit back.

Also another thought I have is that possibly when someone insults you, you might feel that they think you are beneath physical violence and that may upset your ego?

I can't put it into words properly, but this is the main feelings beneath what I'm trying to say. I agree that verbal agression is just as nasty as physical agression and the effects can be more lasting, a bruised mind heals much slower than a bruised body.

 

[Shaderon]

BigShadow and Carol posted while I was trying to figure the words out and they've done it better than me.

 

[Carol]

BigShadow and Carol posted while I was trying to figure the words out and they've done it better than me.

You did fine. Great minds think alike

 

[Bigshadow]

You did fine. Just I type fast!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

you know, i hadn't really thought of the control angle. in class, of course, getting hit is what's supposed to happen. but outside of class the times i've been hit i never felt like things were out of control. in all three cases i was able to just defuse the situation.

it's a lot harder to get somebody shouting at you to stop.

that's a really good point, people.

 

[exile]

Another factor I think is this: pain by itself can't diminish you. It's neutral, it's just an unpleasant sensation (often extremely unpleasant) but it does not have the capacity to make you feel small. Someone who hits you is primarily imposing pain on you, so that neutrality carries over to the strike itself. But an insult reduces you, in some way; it undercuts your carefully constructed self-presentation to the rest of the world.

It doesn't have to, of course—as people like to say (when it's someone else, usually ), `Consider the source'. Easy to say; but the problem is that everyone suffers from some extent from the Imposter Syndrome—the feeling we're not quite as good as we make ourselves out to be, that we got where we are to some extent by putting one over on enough other people. An insult in effect pulls that fear out of the depths where we normally keep it. Here is another person making explicit to us, in a hostile fashion, something we ourselves may well be wondering about. Most of us would much rather be hit with a two-by-four than have that happen to us, given the choice...

 

[wade]

Bushido, I used to have a bit of an anger control problem too. The USPS sent me to an "anger management" class and I was pretty upset about it because I didn't figure "I" had a problem. Well, about 15 minutes into the first class I realized I literally hated everyone in there, include the condescending instructor. I was really getting mad, so, long story short, I realized I did have a problem and started listening to what was being said. I did the work book and every thing else they said to learn to calm myself down. It was, with out a doubt, the best class I ever went to in my life and has helped me in many stressful situations since then. Now, when I get into a verbal confrontation I tend to slow down and work to calm things rather than just hitting some one. Maybe, my opinion, you might want to check this out. It worked for me.

 

[kidswarrior]

so here's something funny. and i mean funny weird, not funny ha ha.

as a result of some stuff in my life, i've been talking to somebody about my emotional responses of late. something odd turned up in the talking last night.

far as i can tell, i get much madder if somebody yells at me or insults me than if they hit me. i can see how this came about -- as a martial arts instructor i get hit a lot more often than the other.

my education is in psychology, so i can see how classical conditioning would make this true. it just really surprised me when i realized it.

does anybody else have this skewed reaction? or am i completely off my nut?

Many great ideas in the responses here, and also a diverse group. So lots of experience, and what I'd call wisdom.

But...bushidomartialarts, I'm going to go my own way and say, I'm just like you. Been that way since high school. Don't have arguments (except on forums --not!), just skip the insults and invite the aggressor to 'aggress'. I've never started a fight/thrown the first punch in my life. But if someone is going to verbally abuse me, I either leave (say in a professional setting, family, polite circumstance as doctor's office, etc.), or let them know to skip that and take their shot.

Now I've read all the posts, and all provide their own framework for making sense of why you or I might feel this way. But I have an idea of why I'm this way that hasn't been mentioned, to my knowledge. May apply to you, may not.

I don't/won't verbally spar because: 1) I'm a very reflective thinker (translation: slow), and it takes a while for me to formulate the response I really want. On the other hand, for someone who's more impulsive (which I have a hunch most people are, and so which society considers 'normal'), the reply is more immediate. And 2) Following the first point, while I'm answering with my long-thought-out reply, usually the other person will interrupt me--that is, they don't listen.

Therefore, since I don't have the time I need to reply, and since most people who are heated don't know how/don't care to listen anyway, if it's a hostile situation I just skip the nonsense and indicate they can put up or shut up. Do I have an anger management problem? Maybe more than some, less than others. Do I take verbal abuse? No. Am I crazy? Maybe that's fodder for a poll. :wink1:

 

[Jade Tigress]

Whoever said "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" was full of baloney.

When you get physically hurt you can do something and see results. You can block, defend, hit back, fight, or struggle. And/or you can take action...steps that would lead to a person being arrested or removed from their job, or slapped with a restraining order.

But words are tougher. You can't always do something in a verbal fight. It can be a battle of wits or it can lead to a person dwelling on something until the next verbal tangle. You don't get the release or the finality of a physical struggle.

If you look around at this forum and other forums, what do you find people angry about? Most posts show anger about politics and hurt feelings. The posts that show anger over hitting someone such as this post here do not show up quite as often.

So no...I don't think you are off your nut, nor do I think you are alone. In fact, I think you're in pretty good company

Carol, you beat me to this. I was going to say exactly what I bolded in your quote. I just have to echo the rest of your post as I agree 100%.

 

[Bigshadow]

I'm a very reflective thinker (translation: slow), and it takes a while for me to formulate the response I really want.

I know what you mean! I am the same way! Additionally, I will spend a great deal of time after an interaction, mentally studying what I did and said, how they responded, and question my actions and words from all angles. I do this any time I perceive the interaction to be important, whether it is business, a confrontation, or something else.

 

[tshadowchaser]

when struck I just react without thinking
when insulted my mind (what there is of it) takes over and that’s when I seem to get really angry. Somehow words push my button much more than fists. sometimes it is not even insults because I can take them from whence they came and laugh but it seems some of the simple words or questions if repeated may be what puts me in a not so good mood. Maybe it just depends on the situation and if I have a predisposition anyway

 

[jks9199]

Physical attacks or threats hurt our bodies -- but most of us don't think ourselves as our bodies. "I" am not my body; "I" am the person/being/spirit that is contained in and includes my body. (End of metaphysical stuff.) In plainer words... Hit me, bruise me, and I don't care. Attack my ego with an insult or attack my emotions -- now you're hurting ME.

Bushidomartialarts... Forgive me for a personal observation here. (I hope that maybe some other folks in similar places that don't have the courage to post about it can gain some insight.) Brother, from a few of your recent posts -- I think maybe you've got some problems that need more help than folks on a message board can give. It sounds like you realize that, too, and are moving in that direction. All I can do is encourage you to keep doing so...

Let me offer you (and others) one tool that I find useful... In my line of work, for some reason, folks insult me a lot. They curse at me, they heap verbal abuse on me by the tractor trailer load... They're just often down right mean to me. (I don't know why... I'm a nice guy!) But they're not really being mean to me, jks9199. They're responding to my uniform and my job. And, even when they are directly addressing me... Do these losers really know me? No. So how can what they say touch me? Some people call it a "professional shield"; others call it "game face", and there are other names for it. But I let insulting or hurtful words fall off it... and listen for the real message and information. To me, it's kind of like Gortex or polarized glass. Gortex will let water vapor pass, but not liquid water, and polarized glass lets only light that's running in the right direction through. The insults and personal attacks are the liquid water or wrong direction of light; they stop on the shield. Whatever message is left, I listen to and respond to appropriately.

And this approach has an added benefit... It's absolutely infuriating to people who are trying to get a rise out of you!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

But they're not really being mean to me, jks9199. They're responding to my uniform and my job. And, even when they are directly addressing me... Do these losers really know me? No. So how can what they say touch me?

And this approach has an added benefit... It's absolutely infuriating to people who are trying to get a rise out of you!

that's exactly the advice i give many of my students. most of the time, that guy giving you the finger in traffic doesn't even know you. it's not a personal attack. he's responding to some internal stimulus that's got nothing to do with you.

and thanks for the note of support. and yeah, professionals are helpful -- i'm seeing to that -- but friends are invaluable. besides, anybody who thinks every single one of us isn't in regular therapy has an incomplete understanding of what training entails.

 

[jdinca]

Depends on who's doing the trash talking and what it's about. Insult me all you want, my hide is quite thick. Question my integrity and we're going to have words.

Haven't been hit yet, except in the school. I really don't mind it. That's actually a downside when it comes to point sparring, I don't care if I get hit (whoops, just lost another point).