Silk Reeling is Water Element

[Appledog34]

There are five elements in the level of the five elements system from Wuji. What element is silk reeling exercise? Anything from simple exercises to Feng/ZXX's total set?

I would say water; and then, stance training is wood. By this I mean high-standing ala yiquan (tree posture, and many others, such as my family's 13 postures taibao system).

Next I would say low stance training beginning with 'horse stance', 'bow stance', 'subdue the tiger', 'monk sits down', 'carptenter handles a drill' is fire.

So, the missing pieces are earth and metal. However, I believe that metal, which is linked to lungs and the air, helps transform the wood into earth (or helps the earth and wood interact). It oxynegates the water and promotes the fire.

This is something I have been thinking about for a while, since people in the Taijiquan system seems to start with water, we can now find a way to progress to the second level and "boil the water" to create steam.

 

[Same Trick42]

Yiquan was mentioned, so it may be good to mention that Wang Xiangzhai’s(founder of Yiquan) take about the five elements is about strength characteristics of one’s body and actions in combat, not in solo exercises . He leant this understanding from his teacher the legendary Xingyiquan master Gou Yunshen

In other methods of martial arts it may be different, but I doubt so

Edit - the five elements strengths of one’s body and mind in combat action derives from the concept of six directional intent exercised in solo exercises

 

[Xue Sheng89]

Water & Fire - Backward/Forward & Sinking/Rising
Wood & Metal - Opening/Closing & Splitting/Merging
Earth - Center/Balance & Up/Down Transition

 

[Appledog34]

Water & Fire - Backward/Forward & Sinking/Rising
Wood & Metal - Opening/Closing & Splitting/Merging
Earth - Center/Balance & Up/Down Transition

I know. But I'm not talking about xingyiquan or any classical interpretation -- rather, a new one.

I suppose what I am doing is speaking in a coded language to see if anyone understands what I mean. This is not a normal discussion. You have to know, or your response doesn't address the question. I am not sure if this is unfair or not.

In a taifeng, wind can be so strong that it blows down a tree. This perception of wind (in this case, I suppose, metal) is not as common as in places that do not have typhoons.

 

[Xue Sheng89]

I know. But I'm not talking about xingyiquan or any classical interpretation -- rather, a new one.

I suppose what I am doing is speaking in a coded language to see if anyone understands what I mean. This is not a normal discussion. You have to know, or your response doesn't address the question. I am not sure if this is unfair or not.

In a taifeng, wind can be so strong that it blows down a tree. This perception of wind (in this case, I suppose, metal) is not as common as in places that do not have typhoons.

well, since you are making this up as you go along, not much conversation to be had.... best of luck in your quest

 

[Appledog34]

well, since you are making this up as you go along, not much conversation to be had.... best of luck in your quest

Thanks! However I'm not making this up as I go along, it was made up hundreds and perhaps thousands of years ago. I'm just trying to come up with a new way of looking at it.

The wuxing , as a stage of reality between the source and the 10,000 things was applied to m stuck and some didn't. It's a way of looking at a process, not a set theory in a particular martial art. That's the 'coded language' I am talking about. In the sense that wuxing is an unstable/odd system (vs. bagua which is an even/stable system) it represents a moving process more cleanly than the overlay of trigrams. In this particular case I am trying to make sense of recent epiphanies from training.

There's always the risk I am over-analyzing things, but don't be too hard on me The sequence I posted has something to it.. and I find sometimes after many years taking things in a new direction can help reinvigorate your practice.

 

[Xue Sheng89]

Thanks! However I'm not making this up as I go along, it was made up hundreds and perhaps thousands of years ago. I'm just trying to come up with a new way of looking at it.

The wuxing , as a stage of reality between the source and the 10,000 things was applied to m stuck and some didn't. It's a way of looking at a process, not a set theory in a particular martial art. That's the 'coded language' I am talking about. In the sense that wuxing is an unstable/odd system (vs. bagua which is an even/stable system) it represents a moving process more cleanly than the overlay of trigrams. In this particular case I am trying to make sense of recent epiphanies from training.

There's always the risk I am over-analyzing things, but don't be too hard on me The sequence I posted has something to it.. and I find sometimes after many years taking things in a new direction can help reinvigorate your practice.

All i have to say is don’t get to hung up on this, don’t over analyze. I varies from style to style. And. IMO, and based on experience, over thinking this will do more harm to your training than help.

Good luck with this

 

[mograph]

All i have to say is don’t get to hung up on this, don’t over analyze.

Buddhists would say, "avoid attachments."

George Box wrote, "all models are wrong, but some are useful."

 

[Appledog34]

If all models are wrong, don't go from the model, create the model based on the experience. Going from the model is attachment to the model. Throw the model out and explain the experience using the theory--standard alchemical code, a staple of buddhism, daoism and martial arts.

From a historical perspective, Li Luoneng's systematization was accepted (and there is pushback against modern systematization, such as the simplified 24 form) because the environment by which systematization is proven no longer exists today. It's a malady of zhou problem, as noted by many in the community, and the dropping of attachment and the change of environment is is the cure.

 

[everything4]

the models are probably getting more and more right (and certainly more useful) now (totally off topic)

 

[mograph]

If all models are wrong, don't go from the model, create the model based on the experience. Going from the model is attachment to the model. Throw the model out and explain the experience using the theory--standard alchemical code, a staple of buddhism, daoism and martial arts.

From a historical perspective, Li Luoneng's systematization was accepted (and there is pushback against modern systematization, such as the simplified 24 form) because the environment by which systematization is proven no longer exists today. It's a malady of zhou problem, as noted by many in the community, and the dropping of attachment and the change of environment is is the cure.

Theory is a model. A map.

By “all models are wrong,” he meant “the map is not the territory.”