TieXiongJi

Green Belt
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
122
Reaction score
8
Metal means the strength contained in the bones and the muscles, the mind being firm like iron or stone, being able to cut gold and steel.
Wood has the meaning of the bending but rooted posture of a tree.
Water means force like the waves of the vast sea, lively like a dragon or a snake, when used, it is able to pervade everything.
Fire means strength being like gunpowder, fists being like bullets shot out, having the strength to burn the opponents body by the first touch.
Earth means exerting strength heavy, deep, solid, and perfectly round, the qi being strong, having the force of oneness with heaven and earth.

I am reading an interview with Wang Xiang Zhai. His teacher described the 5 elements as above.

He added another comment.

"This is the syncretism of the five elements. It has nothing to do with one technique overcoming another technique as the modern people claim. If one first sees with the eyes, then thinks of it again in the mind, and then launches the counter-attack towards the enemy, it is very seldom that one will not get beaten up."

I never thought of the elements are just parts of one person or one fight. I love how the 5 elements concept is simply describing elements of a fighter in a fight.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
13,723
Reaction score
4,337
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
It has nothing to do with one technique overcoming another technique as the modern people claim.
The 5 elements theory is "fighting strategy".

1. Fire - jump around and throw fast punches, an offensive fighter (boxing).
2. Metal - use hard block to cut like knife (Hong Ga).
3. Wood - like tree branches with long range kick and long range punch (TKD).
4. Earth - Move in inch by inch with solid defense (wrestling).
5. Water - respond to opponent's attack, a defensive fighter (Taiji).

1 against 2 - If you move around and throw fast punches, it will be difficult for your opponent to give you a hard block.
2 against 3 - If you like to throw long range punch and long range kick, a hard block will be the best counter.
3 against 4 - If your opponent move in inch by inch, you can use long range kick and punch to keep him away.
4 against 5 - If your opponent is a defensive fighter and won't attack first, you move in inch by inch will force him to make a move.
5 against 1 - If your opponent move around and attack aggressive, you can respond to his attack by spin your body, step back, ... and counter.

For example, One time I spared against a TKD guys. He liked to throw side kick (wood strategy). Every time he side kicked at me, I blocked his kicking leg with my back palm, I then dropped my leading elbow on his ankle (metal strategy). After I had hurt his leg that he could not kick me any more, I jump in, attack, and end that fight. In that entire fight, I only threw 1 punch.
 
Last edited:

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,196
Reaction score
4,853
Location
San Francisco
Pretty much every description I have seen of the five elements has been different from the previous.
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
33,963
Reaction score
8,985
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Xingyiquan 5 elements (Xingyiquan is the Root of Dachengquan/Yiquan)


XingyiQuan-300x271.jpg

1413591322.png

wuxingquan.jpg
 
Last edited:
OP
TieXiongJi

TieXiongJi

Green Belt
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
122
Reaction score
8
In the Bruce Willis/Milla Jovovich movie, it's Love.

The "Firewater" element is my personal favorite. I have some of that most evenings.
Chief Firewater was a great teacher of mine. He showed me the truth after I partook in the peace pipe ritual.

Let's see if anyone gets that reference...
 

DanT

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
702
Reaction score
289
Location
Planet X
Metal means the strength contained in the bones and the muscles, the mind being firm like iron or stone, being able to cut gold and steel.
Wood has the meaning of the bending but rooted posture of a tree.
Water means force like the waves of the vast sea, lively like a dragon or a snake, when used, it is able to pervade everything.
Fire means strength being like gunpowder, fists being like bullets shot out, having the strength to burn the opponents body by the first touch.
Earth means exerting strength heavy, deep, solid, and perfectly round, the qi being strong, having the force of oneness with heaven and earth.

I am reading an interview with Wang Xiang Zhai. His teacher described the 5 elements as above.

He added another comment.

"This is the syncretism of the five elements. It has nothing to do with one technique overcoming another technique as the modern people claim. If one first sees with the eyes, then thinks of it again in the mind, and then launches the counter-attack towards the enemy, it is very seldom that one will not get beaten up."

I never thought of the elements are just parts of one person or one fight. I love how the 5 elements concept is simply describing elements of a fighter in a fight.
The current explanation of the 5 elements is an attempt to save face. The 5 element theory was an old theory thinking that everything was made of 5 elements. We know now that that is bullsh*t, and atomic theory has completely demolished that way of thinking. So instead of disregarding the belief entirely, people completely change its meaning to refer it to combat. This is problematic on a number of levels.
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
The five element theory may have been created symbolic or metaphorical and then later generations may have taken that as literal. The Huang di neijing suwen has a section about the five elements however when you examine it closer it is written more in a style of how things are in harmony and disharmony then as the Western word of science. The five element as a combat strategy goes far beyond any atomic theory and even xingyi and is most likely used around sunzi time since the five element theory is generally accepted about first century with the first of the alchemical schools and Wei po yang.
 
OP
TieXiongJi

TieXiongJi

Green Belt
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
122
Reaction score
8
The current explanation of the 5 elements is an attempt to save face. The 5 element theory was an old theory thinking that everything was made of 5 elements. We know now that that is bullsh*t, and atomic theory has completely demolished that way of thinking. So instead of disregarding the belief entirely, people completely change its meaning to refer it to combat. This is problematic on a number of levels.
That is very true from the scientific POV. The ethical/metaphysical concepts discussed by all philosophers apply as far as you understand their points. Try to understand what the writer had in their head at the time of the writing is impossible and we can only analyze the actual words and try to apply them with whatever context we understand.
Their writings are not useless, just frozen in their personal perspective.
 

DanT

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
702
Reaction score
289
Location
Planet X
That is very true from the scientific POV. The ethical/metaphysical concepts discussed by all philosophers apply as far as you understand their points. Try to understand what the writer had in their head at the time of the writing is impossible and we can only analyze the actual words and try to apply them with whatever context we understand.
Their writings are not useless, just frozen in their personal perspective.
I agree 100%.
 

DanT

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
702
Reaction score
289
Location
Planet X
That is very true from the scientific POV. The ethical/metaphysical concepts discussed by all philosophers apply as far as you understand their points. Try to understand what the writer had in their head at the time of the writing is impossible and we can only analyze the actual words and try to apply them with whatever context we understand.
Their writings are not useless, just frozen in their personal perspective.
I just don't like pseudoscience being passed off as something mythical or secret and special.
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
I am using the five element theory of using earth to heal my metal my theory is since I have a cold by eating a bag of Oreos which are sweet it will heal my metal qi.

The scientific reasoning is I am to lazy to go cook something.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,515
Reaction score
10,214
Location
Hendersonville, NC
I am using the five element theory of using earth to heal my metal my theory is since I have a cold by eating a bag of Oreos which are sweet it will heal my metal qi.

The scientific reasoning is I am to lazy to go cook something.
A line of reasoning I often employ when sick.
 
Top