Show me some leg...

gpseymour

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@drop bear posted recently about using a common entry to single-leg and double-leg takedowns. That got me thinking about digging deeper into the rudimentary version I teach.

So, here's my request: post a video of something similar to your favorite single-leg and/or double-leg takedown for beginners - the go-to stuff you'd teach to someone who doesn't already have that tool. I'm interested in hearing specifically from folks who are deep into training that uses these (that'd include wrestling, MMA, etc.) and from instructors who routinely teach these.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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In Chinese wrestling, there are more than 15 different ways to obtain your opponent's leading leg. The 1st clip shows the most basic one.


Here is a double legs.


Here is another single leg.

 
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Bill Mattocks

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@drop bear posted recently about using a common entry to single-leg and double-leg takedowns. That got me thinking about digging deeper into the rudimentary version I teach.

So, here's my request: post a video of something similar to your favorite single-leg and/or double-leg takedown for beginners - the go-to stuff you'd teach to someone who doesn't already have that tool. I'm interested in hearing specifically from folks who are deep into training that uses these (that'd include wrestling, MMA, etc.) and from instructors who routinely teach these.

I looked for a video, did not see any good ones that demonstrate what I am about to describe.

Single-leg takedown - the only one in my toolbox.

Opponent brings roundhouse kick (mawashigeri) to middle body. I drop my arm, take hit while moving slightly away from the incoming blow to take the sting off. Wrap my arm up and trap leg in crook of elbow. Step towards opponent's middle, drop my center and take a high horse (seuinchin) stance, kick up and bring heel back on inside of opponent's remaining leg. I may punch his middle body as I apply the kick, to bring him down faster. I may also just keep stepping in while not letting go of his trapped leg; even if I miss the kick, he's hopping backwards and at my mercy.

Single leg takedown. But I don't do it with my arms. I do it by putting him on one leg and then kicking that leg out from under him.

Does that count?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Single leg takedown. But I don't do it with my arms. I do it by putting him on one leg and then kicking that leg out from under him.

Does that count?
Besides using your arm, you can also use:

- knee strike,
- shoulder strike,
- inner hook,
- outer hook,
- leg lift,
- foot sweep,
- foot scoop,
- foot sticky lift,
- shin bite,
- ...

to obtain your opponent's leading leg.
 
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gpseymour

gpseymour

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In Chinese wrestling, there are more than 15 different ways to obtain your opponent's leading leg. The 1st clip shows the most basic one.


Here is a double legs.


Here is another single leg.

Which is your personal favorite of those two single-leg?
 
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gpseymour

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I looked for a video, did not see any good ones that demonstrate what I am about to describe.

Single-leg takedown - the only one in my toolbox.

Opponent brings roundhouse kick (mawashigeri) to middle body. I drop my arm, take hit while moving slightly away from the incoming blow to take the sting off. Wrap my arm up and trap leg in crook of elbow. Step towards opponent's middle, drop my center and take a high horse (seuinchin) stance, kick up and bring heel back on inside of opponent's remaining leg. I may punch his middle body as I apply the kick, to bring him down faster. I may also just keep stepping in while not letting go of his trapped leg; even if I miss the kick, he's hopping backwards and at my mercy.

Single leg takedown. But I don't do it with my arms. I do it by putting him on one leg and then kicking that leg out from under him.

Does that count?
It counts, but not for what I'm looking for. I'm adding that to some of the auxiliary things I want to teach around kick defenses, and I'll look at it when I get another student to that point.
 

Bill Mattocks

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It counts, but not for what I'm looking for. I'm adding that to some of the auxiliary things I want to teach around kick defenses, and I'll look at it when I get another student to that point.
How about defense from bear hug by reaching down and grasping the opponent's leg and pulling it up between your own legs whilst pushing back with the hips? That's about all I got, I'm afraid.
 
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gpseymour

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How about defense from bear hug by reaching down and grasping the opponent's leg and pulling it up between your own legs whilst pushing back with the hips? That's about all I got, I'm afraid.
A favorite of mine if they make the mistake of letting me get low before they take my balance.

Perhaps I should clarify that I'm looking for a basic single-leg/double-leg takedown from the front. The kind of thing a wrestler would learn fairly early-on, and would also show up in a lot of MMA training, BJJ, etc. In our case, it would mostly be used starting from a kneeling position (if we're standing, we'll normally work higher than that), but I can adapt almost any standing entry to the kneeling position.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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How about defense from bear hug by reaching down and grasping the opponent's leg and pulling it up between your own legs whilst pushing back with the hips? That's about all I got, I'm afraid.
I have just 1 clip for that. I prefer to use different set up instead. I would use my right hand to grab on my opponent's left hand, guide his left hand downward to hide my intention.

 

Kung Fu Wang

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I'm looking for a basic single-leg/double-leg takedown from the front.
When you are right in front of your opponent, if you apply single leg, your opponent can step back his leading leg, press on top of your neck, and let you to kiss the dirt.

The following picture was the only picture that I have when my teacher still competed in national level Chinese wrestling tournament.

Chang_downward_pull.jpg


IMO, 2 things are important here:

1. You need to establish a body connection first. This way when your opponent steps back. His backward movement will pull your body into him.
2. You need to cut in through an angle that no matter how he may move his leading leg, his leading leg will always be under your attacking range. The best angle is when your back foot is lined up with his both feet.

 
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JR 137

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Single and double-leg takedowns can be "low" or "high" - meaning dropping to your knees or remaining on your feet.

Then there's variation on low - you could grab the back of the thigh(s), back of the knee(s), or the ankle (single leg only).

All of those start with "shooting in." If you're looking for a kicking counter, the entry will be different, but what you do once you've got the leg can easily be adapted. And it'll be a high single if it's a kicking counter, unless you want to drop to a knee while shooting in, which on the surface doesn't make much sense to me.

What are you looking for? I'll try to find something along the lines of what I taught.
 

drop bear

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Single and double-leg takedowns can be "low" or "high" - meaning dropping to your knees or remaining on your feet.

Then there's variation on low - you could grab the back of the thigh(s), back of the knee(s), or the ankle (single leg only).

All of those start with "shooting in." If you're looking for a kicking counter, the entry will be different, but what you do once you've got the leg can easily be adapted. And it'll be a high single if it's a kicking counter, unless you want to drop to a knee while shooting in, which on the surface doesn't make much sense to me.

What are you looking for? I'll try to find something along the lines of what I taught.

For a kick defence i either catch it as standard or do a knee tap. kind of like this.


I will also do the knee tap as part of a double leg single leg combination.
 
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gpseymour

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Single and double-leg takedowns can be "low" or "high" - meaning dropping to your knees or remaining on your feet.

Then there's variation on low - you could grab the back of the thigh(s), back of the knee(s), or the ankle (single leg only).

All of those start with "shooting in." If you're looking for a kicking counter, the entry will be different, but what you do once you've got the leg can easily be adapted. And it'll be a high single if it's a kicking counter, unless you want to drop to a knee while shooting in, which on the surface doesn't make much sense to me.

What are you looking for? I'll try to find something along the lines of what I taught.
I'd be looking at the "low" versions, since I normally teach these as part of the defense from the ground - a way to get back in control. The low versions are already down there, and most won't need much adaptation to be used from a kneeling position (some will need more momentum, or a different direction).
 

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Codex Wallerstein:

Sigmund Ringeck: "Rapidly go to seize with both hands, grab him with both hands in the knee-hollows, pull towards you, and punch him with the head against his chest, thus you will throw him backwards to the ground."

He also describes a followup this way:

"If you wish to throw someone onto his back, then seize his legs (in falling) under the knee with both hands. And lift, as high as you can, and attack him between his legs with both knees into the testicles. And bend down, so that you can hold both of his legs with one hand, then you can use your other hand as you please."

This a pretty typical DLT in medieval/Renaissance sources, using a head butt to the mid section rather than the chest to chest morote gari style (which is still in Auerswald's manual as a counter to the double lapel grab), or the modern version which goes deeper.
 

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For a kick defence i either catch it as standard or do a knee tap. kind of like this.


I will also do the knee tap as part of a double leg single leg combination.

For a kick defense I'll catch it too, but I'll do either an inside trip to their plant foot (kind of hook my foot around the back of theirs), forearm into the thigh with a spin to takedown (hard to describe and I rarely use it), or just lift their leg straight up. Lifting their leg straight up is usually the most effective and lowest risk for me. It depends on where their center of gravity is and how light they are on their feet as to which one I'll use.

I didn't like the video's knee tap much. I'm more of the traditional wrestling penetration step guy.

Gerry - I'll look for some videos of what I did/prefer.
 
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gpseymour

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Codex Wallerstein:

Sigmund Ringeck: "Rapidly go to seize with both hands, grab him with both hands in the knee-hollows, pull towards you, and punch him with the head against his chest, thus you will throw him backwards to the ground."

He also describes a followup this way:

"If you wish to throw someone onto his back, then seize his legs (in falling) under the knee with both hands. And lift, as high as you can, and attack him between his legs with both knees into the testicles. And bend down, so that you can hold both of his legs with one hand, then you can use your other hand as you please."

This a pretty typical DLT in medieval/Renaissance sources, using a head butt to the mid section rather than the chest to chest morote gari style (which is still in Auerswald's manual as a counter to the double lapel grab), or the modern version which goes deeper.
This is reasonably close to the version I teach now. A couple of nice points in that video I'll need to pick at when I can get on the mats with a partner. Thanks!
 

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I like this one. He hits pretty much all the points. Unfortunately he's working with a partner who's way too short and he can't get the solid penetration step that I'd emphasize; he's too far out - his plant foot should ideally land right between his partner's feet.

Other than that, a bit more emphasis on that knee (the one that's initially up) coming down to the mat would've made it perfect IMO...


The way I was taught and the way I taught it.
 

drop bear

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Codex Wallerstein:

Sigmund Ringeck: "Rapidly go to seize with both hands, grab him with both hands in the knee-hollows, pull towards you, and punch him with the head against his chest, thus you will throw him backwards to the ground."

He also describes a followup this way:

"If you wish to throw someone onto his back, then seize his legs (in falling) under the knee with both hands. And lift, as high as you can, and attack him between his legs with both knees into the testicles. And bend down, so that you can hold both of his legs with one hand, then you can use your other hand as you please."

This a pretty typical DLT in medieval/Renaissance sources, using a head butt to the mid section rather than the chest to chest morote gari style (which is still in Auerswald's manual as a counter to the double lapel grab), or the modern version which goes deeper.

I think it was la canne who described ruffians doing a double underhook back bend version of that.
 
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