Should Sex Ed be reformed?

[Bill Mattocks]

As a one-time single father to a girl going through puberty, I was pretty grateful for sex-ed classes. They couldn't help her pick out a bra, or feminine hygeine products, though, and, sometimes, neither could I. :lol:

Have kids, and you might be grateful too....:lol:

I will grant you that is a situation I had not thought of. However, I am married. My wife and I just were not blessed with children for whatever reason.

 

[Twin Fist]

Note to All "Chicks"

1. Men need to provide All the condoms, All the time. Make sure to see the sales receipt so you know they are fresh.

2. If you think they are cheap quality and may tear, double up. Don't risk STD and pregnancy. Ignore his whining and he will whine.

3. He will make Alllllll Sorts of promises to avoid wearing a condom, Don't listen, he will lie like a rug. However, there is a small office procedure that a man can have done under local anaesthetic that will go a long way towards this. There are no side effects and minimal risk or would he rather have you assume All the risk?
Not that wonder drugs like Deprovera carries any long term health risks to us "chicks". :rpo:
lori

quoted for truth, i agree with every word of this. I would also add "and if you are stupid enough to fall for his line of BS and get pregnant or a disease, look in the mirror. THATS who's fault it is"

and I would also add "BTW guys, dont fall for her crap either. no, you are not the only one, no, she isnt on the pill, no, she does NOT have some medical problem that will keep her from getting knocked up. Unless you want to get a disease or write a check every month for child support, WEAR A FRIGGIN CONDOM"

too much stupidity int he world, not near enough personal responsibility

I am the only one in my family that doesnt have a line of kids scattered behind them. Want to know why? cuz I aint stupid. I use condoms. Always have. I was in the military and went to the PI more times than i can count, never caught anything, know why? CONDOMS

and I didnt need some teacher in class to tell me either

 

[shesulsa]

quoted for truth, i agree with every word of this. I would also add "and if you are stupid enough to fall for his line of BS and get pregnant or a disease, look in the mirror. THATS who's fault it is"

and I would also add "BTW guys, dont fall for her crap either. no, you are not the only one, no, she isnt on the pill, no, she does NOT have some medical problem that will keep her from getting knocked up. Unless you want to get a disease or write a check every month for child support, WEAR A FRIGGIN CONDOM"

too much stupidity int he world, not near enough personal responsibility

I am the only one in my family that doesnt have a line of kids scattered behind them. Want to know why? cuz I aint stupid. I use condoms. Always have. I was in the military and went to the PI more times than i can count, never caught anything, know why? CONDOMS

and I didnt need some teacher in class to tell me either

My dad said his father took him on a tour of a sanitarium when he started sprouting hair, parading him through the wards where syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, etcetera were eating people alive. He took him to the druggist and bought him a condom and a shake. He pointed to the condom and said, "use it ..." then pointed to my father's crotch and said, "or lose it. Better yet, keep it tucked."

Dad got a video for me to watch rather than talk to me ... and mom just scared me to death anyway ... but I was appalled at the lack of information I had when I first went for my own female physical alone. It angered me.

There are a few of us, TF, who have the conviction to keep it tucked indeed, to wrap it regardless of passion, whose adult sense pre-empts their teens. Teens can't reason, on the whole, what is right and what is wrong. It makes them neither weak nor stupid ... it makes them young.

Congrats on being the rarity, I suppose.

 

[Lisa]

sex ed if it must be taught, should be limited to diseases, pregnancy, and how to avoid them.

period

Why? Serious questions here, why should it be limited? Seems very simple thinking to what is a complex problem. And it is on subject and not personal.

And for the record, TF didn't offend me with his post, I agree with him to a certain extent but what I don't agree with is the lineal thinking behind it that it HAS to be this way or it HAS to be that. I am glad he has no kids dragging behind him, I am glad I didn't have any either. Do I consider myself lucky, nope. Do I consider myself smart, nope. I consider myself well informed and with enough sensibility to make a good decision for myself. I, however, don't believe everyone is capable of that and whatever help we can give them along the way makes our society stronger.

 

[elder999]

I will grant you that is a situation I had not thought of. However, I am married. My wife and I just were not blessed with children for whatever reason.

I was married to my kids' mom. I'm married again. God forbid anything should happen to your wife, but I wasn't married when my daughter reached puberty......thank God for my mom and my sister....:lol:

 

[Twin Fist]

it doesnt have to be rare, thats the point

parents need to STOP trying to be thier kids FRIENDS, and be the PARENTS, be IN CHARGE

make some friggin rules and stick to them. Dont just accept that 'kids will do it anyway" becasue no, they wont, not if you teach them right, dont let them dress like whores or act like whores (for girls) teach them to respect women (for boys), when you catch them watching "friends" point out to them that accordign to the numbers, at least ONE of them had herpes and or genital warts.....

this isnt the past, anyone with a pc can find all the information about sex they could possibly want to know. Hell even PORN stars wear condoms now.

there are no excuses for anyone, ever. Not anymore.

schools cant even manage to teach kids to get a decent SAT score.... i doubt they can handle sex without jacking that up too.

 

[arnisador]

I see a few more that've jumped on the 'parental rights' bandwagon. Newsflash folks....for those that're so worried about the govt controlling what we do...they control alot.

Then add in the media and their peers.

I had one girlfriend who went on the pill and her parents took it away thinking she wouldn't have sex...WRONG!!! Two months later she was pregnant. There is a perfect example of good parenting right there. Stick your head in the ground and tell your kid no, cause they will listen, won't they??

By and large, evolution is not going to produce post-pubescent mammals that don't want to have sex. You're fighting genetics if you fight this. But as Richard Dawkins noticed, we work counter to evolution every time we use birth control. Birth control (and education about it) recognizes biological/psychological facts about people while giving them the tools to work with those realities.

Should schools stay out of it because that's govt. interference? Well, does anyone want to endorse a "no welfare" policy for young mothers who are opted-out of sex ed. because their parents took responsibility for it over the govt.?

Public education benefits the public. We opted out of it entierly: We homeschooled our kids (and still do).

 

[Twin Fist]

thats a fair question Lisa, and the answer is simple. yes, i think in simple terms, because it is a simple thing. Its not that complicated. Few things really are complicated.

it should be limited to diseases, pregnancy and how to avoid each. Period. Why? everything else are matter or morality,and schools shouldnt be teaching morality. Period. no "here have some condoms" or 'here is where you can go to get the pill"

There is no need.

GOOGLE

kids use it, trust me.

I just raised a teenage girl. We made rules and she followed them. It wasnt hard.

Why? Serious questions here, why should it be limited? Seems very simple thinking to what is a complex problem. And it is on subject and not personal.

 

[arnisador]

stupid and or weak

Holding every 14 y.o. kid in the country to your high standards ("We mold ourselves in the iron forges of our wills!" -Mr. Han) isn't good public policy.

if some chick wants the pill, she can GOOGLE how to get them.

Not every "chick" has Internet access at home--certainly, not unrestricted. Should they be speaking with their parents about it? Of course (generally). Will they? Look around.

 

[elder999]

I just raised a teenage girl. We made rules and she followed them. It wasnt hard.

Mostly followed them, anyway, right?

I mean, at best, you can say "that I know of."

(How many rules did you break as a teenager? I know I got away with breaking a few.....)

edit:make that more than a few. :lol:

 

[Lisa]

thats a fair question Lisa, and the answer is simple. yes, i think in simple terms, because it is a simple thing. Its not that complicated. Few things really are complicated.

it should be limited to diseases, pregnancy and how to avoid each. Period. Why? everything else are matter or morality,and schools shouldnt be teaching morality. Period. no "here have some condoms" or 'here is where you can go to get the pill"

There is no need.

GOOGLE

kids use it, trust me.

I just raised a teenage girl. We made rules and she followed them. It wasnt hard.

Thanks for the answer TF, I really appreciate it. I find sometimes you post rather straight from the hip and don't explain your points, bring the hair up at the back of my neck very often, and I have to stop and try and figure out what you mean, hence asking the question, lol.

Oh and congratulations for raising a teenage girl and it not being hard. I suppose you have to decide what is hard and what isn't, lol. Overall, I have to say both my kids have been rather easy, doesn't mean I haven't wanted to pull my hair out sometimes, however!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I was married to my kids' mom. I'm married again. God forbid anything should happen to your wife, but I wasn't married when my daughter reached puberty......thank God for my mom and my sister....:lol:

I should have been more clear. My wife and I have no children, and our ages, we're not likely to, barring miracles, combined with the fact that I live in Detroit and she lives in North Carolina and we see each other a couple times a year (we talk on the phone for at least an hour a night, but you can't get pregnant that way, I'm pretty sure). If, (as you say, God Forbid It) anything should happen to my wife, there still won't be any kids - for reasons I'd prefer not discussing, but believe me, there is no possibility of children for me, ever.

I've had well-meaning clergy and relatives say "never say never," but they have no idea what they're talking about. Pregnancy requires certain things to happen that cannot occur with us, so they will not be happening, and there is no way around that.

Despite that, I still have an interest in the world I live in, and that means I'm still concerned with how children are raised and/or inculcated by the state.

 

[Carol]

A big complaint that I hear about abstinence-only education, is that "it doesn't work"

So...what does work?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A big complaint that I hear about abstinence-only education, is that "it doesn't work"

So...what does work?

Mark Twain stated that children should be kept in a wooden barrel and fed through the bunghole (the barrel's bunghole, geeze) until they were 18.

Then, of course, the hole should be sealed up.

Seriously, this is how the socialist mindset works. First, a problem is defined. It may well be a real problem, as teen pregnancy and teen STD's really are. Then, it is determined that parents, (or abstinence teaching) for whatever reason, are failing to address the problem. The next step, in the socialist mind, is to turn the problem over to the government for a solution.

That's why the question is often pitched as one which must be answered, and crafted in such a way that there is only one answer.

The question: If abstinence doesn't work, then what does?
The answer: Whatever the state wants to inculcate as a 'norm'.

The real question(s) are why is it presumed that government can inculcate a child with societal values better than parents, and where did we give the government the right to abrogate parental rights?

 

[Twin Fist]

i dont think 'dont be stupid" is a high standard.

I dont think 'dont fall for his crap" is a high standard.

and the friggin LIBRARY has unrestricted internet access, so that doesnt fly either.

No elder she did follow the rules, she as never more than 5 minutes late for curfew, never didnt answer her phone, she called when she had too much to drink, and was still a virgin going into her senior year. By then she was 17 and past the age of consent. and it wasnt hard.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

When I was in school things like Mutual masturbation,Anal sex,use of vibration objects,fetishes were not addressed,Gay orientation was not addressed if Sex Ed is to be provided in schools shouldn't these concepts be taught to produce healthy sexual adults?

If other sexual practices are taught would the result of teen preganacy drop? Would Teens be more careful during sex?

 

[Tez3]

Is this a discussion about sex education in schools or a rant about socialism?
This socialist country (UK) leaves it to parents to decide whether their children attend sex education classes which don't show soft porn films in school, that's illegal here btw.The classes are there for those who wish to let their schildren attend, there's no pressure to attend, parents can teach what they want ref sex education.
In socialist countries where healthcare is free, underage pregnancies do become an issue that everyone worries about, it costs the country money. It costs money to educate all these extra children as well as house them. Bill you don't live in a socialist country, America will never become a socialist country so your bigotry towards socialism is unwarranted in this instance.
Parental rights.... the right to screw your kids up.
http://www.artofeurope.com/larkin/lar2.htm

Talk to your children, teach them everything they need to survive the big bad world, be honest, be brave, explain. Love them then love them some more and then even more.

 

[yorkshirelad]

The school btw is the Cardinal Heenan and sex education isn't mandatory in this country. All parents have the right to take their children out of the classes and many do.
As for showing soft porn films in UK schools, which schools where? because I very much doubt it.

I didn't say anything about soft porn films. Why don't you re-read my text Tez. I went to Garforth comp. We were given sex ed as a requirement, inclusive of cucumbers and condoms-fact. I was there you were not.

 

[Tez3]

I didn't say anything about soft porn films. Why don't you re-read my text Tez. I went to Garforth comp. We were given sex ed as a requirement, inclusive of cucumbers and condoms-fact. I was there you were not.

I know you didn't mention sex films, Bill did,he said soft porn was shown in English schools.You spelled Heenan wrong. and good grief you went to the same bloody school as my other half. You know Oulton?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Is this a discussion about sex education in schools or a rant about socialism?

I believe there are elements of both in it. The question was whether or not, given the 'failure of abstinence', sex-ed should be changed. I believe it should - it should be abolished.

This socialist country (UK) leaves it to parents to decide whether their children attend sex education classes which don't show soft porn films in school, that's illegal here btw.The classes are there for those who wish to let their schildren attend, there's no pressure to attend, parents can teach what they want ref sex education.

I am glad to hear that, but of course, I don't live in the UK.

In socialist countries where healthcare is free, underage pregnancies do become an issue that everyone worries about, it costs the country money. It costs money to educate all these extra children as well as house them.

It costs money in semi-socialist countries like the USA, too, witness "Octo-mom." She draws quite a few public services which we all pay for.

Bill you don't live in a socialist country, America will never become a socialist country so your bigotry towards socialism is unwarranted in this instance.

The USA may not be a socialist country compared to the UK, but it is rapidly heading that way, it seems to me. Despite your assurances that the USA will never become socialist, I feel otherwise.

And there is nothing wrong with good old-fashioned bigotry. Bigotry is intolerance, and I am certainly intolerant of socialism. The funny thing is, everyone harbors bigotry, and many pretend either they are not bigoted, or that their bigotry is justified and therefore not bigotry. The biggest proponents of 'tolerance' are liberals, yet ask them about AM talk radio icons like Rush Limbaugh - they want his 'hate speech' banned! Much tolerance there. And the bigotry against smokers, and against gun owners, in some cases the obese, and certainly against conservatives - why that's not intolerance at all, because it is justified!

So yes, I'm quite bigoted, against socialism, and I make no bones about it. Feel free to call me a bigot - I wear the label proudly.

Parental rights.... the right to screw your kids up.
http://www.artofeurope.com/larkin/lar2.htm

Well, it would appear you prefer having the state screw them up. There is some advantage to this?

Talk to your children, teach them everything they need to survive the big bad world, be honest, be brave, explain. Love them then love them some more and then even more.

A fine thing, and I'm all in favor of it. I also favor the rights of parents who disagree with this method of informing their children about sex-ed. Isn't this where we came in?