Shooting happened...hmmmm...how different is the coverage?

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billc

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From ABC network news, the shooter apparently started by arguing with the guard about the FRCs policies...hmmmm...I think I have heard about this group recently...Hmmm...I can't remember where...oh well, I need to get something for dinner...perhaps a chicken sandwiche would be nice...hmmm...I still wonder how different this story is being covered....

This coverage from the "approved" sources for information...

http://news.yahoo.com/family-resear...es-gunman-195141610--abc-news-topstories.html

The shooter entered the offices of The Family Research Council and began yelling at the guard about the organization's policies. He soon fired a handgun at the guard around 10:50 a.m. EDT. The man was subsequently subdued by the injured guard and others. Police arrested the gunman and authorities say he is being interviewed by the FBI.
The security guard, who has been hailed by police as a hero for averting a rampage, was taken to a nearby hospital.

From newsmax...

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/family-research-council-shooter/2012/08/15/id/448716

From breitbart...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...Conservative-Family-Research-Council-Building

The shooting happened in Washington, D.C., which is the center of the political media universe. There is more evidence in this case that the shooter had political motivations than in other recent cases (Gabby Giffords, Aurora, to name a few) in which the mainstream media jumped to conclusions about the shooter's motives, falsely implicating conservatives and the Tea Party.
Yet, there have not been breaking news alerts on cable television. Cable news outlets are not covering this incident wall-to-wall, even as more details come to light.
 
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ballen0351

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Sources told Fox News that after guard took away his gun, the suspect said, "Don't shoot me, it was not about you, it was what this place stands for."

Yeah nothing personal I know I just shot you but please don't shoot me back it might hurt.
 
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billc

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And here is the shooter...and his associations...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...-For-LGBT-Group-SPLC-Releases-Tepid-Statement

The gunman who opened fire and shot a security guard at the Family Research Council’s Washington, D.C. office has now been identified as Floyd Corkins, a volunteer for the last six months at The DC Center for the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender) Community.



and from ABC news...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-res...tackles-gunman/story?id=17013563#.UCxwHY5dWFI

The suspect was carrying items from a Chick-fil-A restaurant, law enforcement sources said.

I wonder if you changed a few facts around in this how differently the story would be covered...?
 
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billc

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Hmmm...nice story Sukerkin. Was it matched by memorials to the Chinese, Filipino, American, British, and other nationalities who were victims of Japanese aggression, and brutality during the war in Japan? This nice story of a soldier finding forgiveness for the brutal enemies that he fought is the kind of forgiveness you like to see in the world. However, it seems all too easy today to forget exactly what Japan was doing during that war to the soldiers and civilians who came under their control and why Hiroshima and Nagasake were bombed because of the refusal of Japan to surrender peacefully. If anyone has the right to forgive his enemies it would be that man. May he rest in peace.
 
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billc

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A look at how different shootings get different coverage...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/08/the-shooting-at-the-frc-and-double-standards.php

Let me be clear: Corkins alone is to blame for his attack; no culpability of any kind attaches to critics, no matter how vehement, of the FRC.



It is instructive, I believe, to compare that reticence regarding this patently partisan political shooting in the offices of a conservative organization to the noisy, reckless, anti-conservative approach the MSM has taken in instances where there was no sound basis for suspecting political partisanship, e.g., the shootings in Tuscon and Aurora.
as Mary Katharine Ham notes:
CNN managed to stay away from the story entirely for more than two hours despite the fact that FRC’s offices are less than a mile from their D.C. bureau. The Huffington Post‘s afternoon e-mailed Capitol Hill report mentioned nary a word about the shooting. The Washington Post noted the suspected shooter “expressed disagreement” with the organization’s positions. . . .
To illustrate the double standard, all you have to do is replace one letter of this story. FRC becomes HRC, the Human Rights Campaign. Please tell me CNN would have missed that story for several hours or that the media would studiously have noted, over and over, that police had no clues as to the motive of the shooter.
Like Mary Katharine, I prefer the approach the MSM took today to its usual rush to partisan judgment. But the double standard is sickening.
I also found it instructive that after his attack failed and he was subdued, today’s shooter, Floyd Corkins, reportedly begged not be shot, saying that his assault was nothing personal, he just had a problem with the FRC’s politics. Apparently, Corkins thought he was entitled to mercy because his politics were pure.
 

elder999

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Hmmm...nice story Sukerkin. Was it matched by memorials to the Chinese, Filipino, American, British, and other nationalities who were victims of Japanese aggression, and brutality during the war in Japan? This nice story of a soldier finding forgiveness for the brutal enemies that he fought is the kind of forgiveness you like to see in the world. However, it seems all too easy today to forget exactly what Japan was doing during that war to the soldiers and civilians who came under their control and why Hiroshima and Nagasake were bombed because of the refusal of Japan to surrender peacefully. If anyone has the right to forgive his enemies it would be that man. May he rest in peace.

Jesus, man. :rolleyes:

You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?-Sen. Joseph Welch, to Sen. Joseph McCarthy, during the end of the McCarthy hearings, (which you will doubtless defend, for the edification of us all.:rolleyes: )

Good night.
 
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billc

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On the shooting...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journa...efuse-to-Connect-the-Dots-on-Violent-Leftists

[h=2]A year ago I wrote a column here on Big Journalism detailing violence by leftists and expressing my desire that my friends in the media would spot it, expose it, and perhaps hold firm to their promise to "protect" the public by making us aware of a very real threat. [/h]So far, the media has done nothing but blame the wrong people. At the first site of violence in Colorado, ABC's Brian Ross turns to the Tea Party because apparently that's the only template he knows. He could not have been further from the truth.
If police reports are accurate, the violence at a Conservative lobbying group in Washington DC was perpetuated by a radical leftist whose motive was purely political. He said so. He reportedly said he shot up the place because of what it stood for. It doesn't get more clear than that. It's like a guy going into a US Military Base yelling "Allahu Akbar" and the media still wondering what the motive is. Wait, that happened as well and the motive was ignored. "We don't know why Major Hasan did this," is what most media observers said.
An honest media is necessary to expose the motives behind these violent leftists. No, this is not equal on both sides. Not even close.
Violence by leftists has been well documented. I will go through it again. A moveon.org volunteer bit off the finger of a conservative because of politics. Conservative Kenneth Gladney was selling American flags and was beaten up and put in a wheel chair by SEIU thugs because of his politics. I have personally seen the late Andrew Breitbart accosted by angry mobs. The violent acts of leftist groups like Occupy Wall Street have been well documented.
 
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billc

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No Elder, I'll let Ann Coulter do it...

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2012-08-08.html

but now I guess I'll have to recap parts of my smash best-seller Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism
ir
.

McCarthy said he had the names of 57 communists or communist sympathizers working in the State Department who needed to be investigated. Separately, he cited a 1946 letter from former Secretary of State James Byrnes to Congress stating that there were 205 known security risks still working there.

His point, misconstrued by Democrats at the time and since, was not to accuse specific individuals, but rather to indict the Democrats for turning a blind eye to ridiculous security risks in important government jobs, even after Julius and Ethel Rosenberg and Alger Hiss. (Sorry, Nation magazine, they're still guilty.)

McCarthy gave his Wheeling, W.Va., speech two weeks after Secretary of State Dean Acheson had defended celebrity communist spy Hiss on Jan. 25, 1950 -- the day of Hiss' criminal conviction for denying under oath that he was a Soviet spy.

Even after Whittaker Chambers had produced documents proving that Hiss was working for the Soviet Union while advising President Roosevelt, the Democrats were still defending a traitor. Chambers said of Acheson's disgusting defense of Hiss, "You will look in vain in history for anything comparable to it."

As Democrats always do when they are caught red-handed harming the country, they obsessed on some small, technical error of a Republican.

They claimed that McCarthy had said in his Wheeling speech that he had the names of 205 card-carrying members of the Communist Party -- not 57. (Having only 57 communists in the State Department was apparently considered a great success for a Democratic administration.)

In fact, McCarthy had mentioned the 205 number only in citing Byrne's letter to Congress a few years earlier saying that was the number of known security risks still employed at the State Department.

As Soviet spies were honeycombed throughout the government, influencing U.S. policy to the benefit of the Soviet Union, the Democratic-controlled Senate convened panels to determine exactly what Joe McCarthy had said to a meeting of Republican women in West Virginia. To wit: Had he said he had the names of 57 specific security risks at the State Department, or 205?

After dedicating months of investigation to this crucial question -- with Senate investigators actually flying to West Virginia to interview everyone who attended the speech -- it turned out McCarthy was right.

The Senate committee that was determined to censure McCarthy ended up having to drop the matter of McCarthy's Wheeling speech entirely. A fact-filled memo detailing the committee's findings concluded that McCarthy had said he had the names of 57 security risks, not 205.

The truth about McCarthy's Wheeling speech, including the committee's memo finding that McCarthy was telling the truth, and a newspaper article reprinting the speech before it became a object of obsession by Democrats, is given in M. Stanton Evans' monumental book, Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies
ir
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Moreover, contrary to the nonsense about McCarthy not being able to name the 57 specific individuals, the very day he got back to Washington, he gave a six-hour speech on the Senate floor, providing details about the problematic State Department employees, chapter and verse. He did not "name names" because that was not his point.

As McCarthy said, some State Department employees with communist associations might be innocent. His point was: The Democrats were still refusing to take Soviet espionage seriously by investigating these preposterous risks on the government payroll.

Far from recklessly smearing people, McCarthy described each employee as a "case" and cited such evidence as their being identified as Soviet spies in FBI reports, by fellow spies and by the State Department itself. He reported their connections to known agents, attendance at "Youth International" meetings in Russia and repeated contacts with known Soviet espionage groups.

These were not baseless charges. And as we now know, they were absolutely true.

Sensible people knew it at the time, but the disgorging of Soviet archives as well as Soviet cables decrypted by the top-secret Venona project proved beyond a doubt that McCarthy was right about the individuals he named. None of them should have been allowed anywhere near a government office.
 

elder999

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No Elder, I'll let Ann Coulter do it...

.
:rolleyes:

Oh, there's a rebuttal from a reliable source. :lfao:

Sure. McCarthy was right-the government was infiltrated by communists. Had been since before WWII. There were abunch of people, like Pete Seeger, Robert Oppenheimer, and my grandparents, who had been members or on the fringe at a time when it was fasionable-in the period up to WWII, when they were in college, and the Bolsheviks were seen by many as brothers in solidarity with our founding fathers, and inheritors of their tradition-that of overthrowing the yoke of tyranny.

Hell, there were Russian communist spies in Los Alamos, with integral roles in the Manhattan Project, reporting to their communist overlords the entire time-and we didn't catch them. McCarthy didn't catch anyone, either, he just exposed and embarassed people with their youthful indiscretions-or empty innuendo-and drove a witch-hunt that came to a grinding halt. Doesn't matter what Coulter says "his point" was-he ruined lives, or brought them to the very edge of ruin-got a bunch of wonderful writers and performers black-listed. Some of them, like Paul Robeson (who played ball with my grandfather at Columbia, back in 1920....:lol: ) were real, dyed-in-the wool, card-carrying commies. Some, like Robert Oppenheimer (who was more a victim of Edward Teller and our own fervid, technological worship of Anubis ,Osiris, Thanatos and Yama) were never party members (though his wife was) only socially at the edge of things. Some, like Dalton Trumbo, managed to continue to work in spite of being blacklisted, some, like Oppenheimer, never worked again. Oppenheimer's daughter was denied a security clearance to become a U.N. translator because of her father's record, and later killed herself. There's lots of real stories like that, instead of the drunken ravings of a power mad senator, and the droolings of a skinny, evil, partisan hack.

As for McCarthy, the man made accusations of disloyalty and treason, often based on nothing more than innuendo, and sometimes on less, and deserved a worse fate than a drunken death and having such contemptible practices named after him.
 

elder999

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And again...
noi
Not so sure, billi-cable decrypted by Venona identified FDR and William Churchill, and, short of seeing it waved in his hand, no one ever officially saw McCarthy's "list of names," though Harry Dexter White and the Rosenburgs were probably on his l
st, the fact is that at one time he said, "I have here in my hand a list of 205 names," and on another the number was 57-these were read into the congressional record, of course, so the question becomes: which was it? 205? or 57?

Or none. Since McCarthy never made his list public, and it's never been made public, one has to wonder how "again" Soviet cables proved beyond doubt that McCarthy was right about the individuals he named,[/ki] considering that Dalton Trumbo, Paul Robeson, Robert Oppenheimer, and Pete Seeger's names never appear in any Venona cables, along with a host of others, and that we'll never know who was on McCarthy's list......

Again, sir, have you at last, no shame, no sense of common decency??? :lol:


If I were to revise history in the fashion of Ann Coulter and those who follow her, I'd doubtless be compared with the Nazis. I won't do that; it's more moronic than Nazism, which at least had a cold-blooded efficiency about it, as well as a dark, occult undercurrent. This, on the other hand-the only purpose of this seems to sow discontent, and lead weaker minds-apparently like some in Peoria-to extreme thought.
 
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granfire

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Not so sure, billi-cable decrypted by Venona identified FDR and William Churchill, and, short of seeing it waved in his hand, no one ever officially saw McCarthy's "list of names," though Harry Dexter White and the Rosenburgs were probably on his l
st, the fact is that at one time he said, "I have here in my hand a list of 205 names," and on another the number was 57-these were read into the congressional record, of course, so the question becomes: which was it? 205? or 57?

Or none. Since McCarthy never made his list public, and it's never been made public, one has to wonder how "again" Soviet cables proved beyond doubt that McCarthy was right about the individuals he named,[/ki] considering that Dalton Trumbo, Paul Robeson, Robert Oppenheimer, and Pete Seeger's names never appear in any Venona cables, along with a host of others, and that we'll never know who was on McCarthy's list......

Again, sir, have you at last, no shame, no sense of common decency??? :lol:


If I were to revise history in the fashion of Ann Coulter and those who follow her, I'd doubtless be compared with the Nazis. I won't do that; it's more moronic than Nazism, which at least had a cold-blooded efficiency about it, as well as a dark, occult undercurrent. This, on the other hand-the only purpose of this seems to sow discontent, and lead weaker minds-apparently like some in Peoria-to extreme thought.


so for all we know he had his wife's shopping list in hand?
 
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billc

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People can research the truth for themselves...here is a place to start...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14...SIN=1400081068&linkCode=as2&tag=anncoulter-20

Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies

Drawing on primary sources—including never-before-published government records and FBI files, as well as recent research gleaned from Soviet archives and intercepted transmissions between Moscow spymasters and their agents in the United States—Evans presents irrefutable evidence of a relentless Communist drive to penetrate our government, influence its policies, and steal its secrets. Most shocking of all, he shows that U.S. officials supposedly guarding against this danger not only let it happen but actively covered up the penetration. All of this was precisely as Joe McCarthy contended.

Blacklisted by History shows, for instance, that the FBI knew as early as 1942 that J. Robert Oppenheimer, the director of the atomic bomb project, had been identified by Communist leaders as a party member; that high-level U.S. officials were warned that Alger Hiss was a Soviet spy almost a decade before the Hiss case became a public scandal; that a cabal of White House, Justice Department, and State Department officials lied about and covered up the Amerasia spy case; and that the State Department had been heavily penetrated by Communists and Soviet agents before McCarthy came on the scene.

Evans also shows that practically everything we’ve been told about McCarthy is false, including conventional treatment of the famous 1950 speech at Wheeling, West Virginia, that launched the McCarthy era (“I have here in my hand . . .”), the Senate hearings that casually dismissed his charges, the matter of leading McCarthy suspect Owen Lattimore, the Annie Lee Moss case, the Army-McCarthy hearings, and much more.
 
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billc

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In the famous exchange with Annie Lee Moss...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Lee_Moss

First, the Annie Lee Moss testimony...

McCarthy left the hearing room shortly after Moss's testimony began, leaving his chief counsel Roy Cohn to handle the rest of the questioning. Moss was a small, soft-spoken and seemingly timid woman who appeared to be a far cry from the intellectuals and political activists who were usually the target of McCarthy's investigations. She stated that she rarely read newspapers and hadn't even heard of Communism until 1948. She had difficulty with multi-syllable words when asked to read a document before the committee, and responded "Who's that?" when asked if she knew who Karl Marx was, evoking laughter from the audience. She denied the charges, saying "Never at any time have I been a member of the Communist Party and I have never seen a Communist Party card," and "I didn't subscribe to the Daily Worker and I wouldn't pay for it."[SUP][14][/SUP]
Cohn's examination of Moss quickly ran into difficulty. After he noted that a "Communist activist" named Rob Hall was known to have visited Moss's home, it was pointed out (by Robert Kennedy, then the minority counsel for the committee) that there were two Rob Halls in Washington: a known Communist, who was white, and a union organizer, who was African-American. Moss said that the Rob Hall she knew was "a man of about my complexion". As the hearing proceeded, it became clear that both the senators and the spectators were favoring Moss over Cohn and McCarthy. When Cohn asserted that he had corroboration of Markward's testimony from a confidential source, Senator John McClellan rebuked him for alluding to evidence he was not actually presenting.[SUP][15][/SUP] Chairman Karl Mundt ruled that Cohn's comments be stricken from the record. McClellan responded:
"You can't strike these statements made by counsel here as to evidence that we're having and withholding. You cannot strike that from the press nor from the public mind once it's planted there. That's the – that is the – evil of it. It is not sworn testimony. It is convicting people by rumor and hearsay and innuendo."[SUP][16][/SUP]As had happened several times already, loud applause erupted from the spectators.
Senator Stuart Symington then suggested that, as with Rob Hall, the case against Moss might be a matter of mistaken identity. Moss immediately agreed, saying there were three women named Annie Lee Moss in Washington D.C.[SUP][17][/SUP] Symington said, "I may be sticking my neck out and I may be wrong, but I've been listening to you testify this afternoon and I think you're telling the truth."[SUP][16][/SUP] Again there was loud and prolonged applause.
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And then "The rest of the story..."

Later evidence against Moss

Since Markward’s information included an address for Annie Lee Moss, and Moss confirmed this address in her testimony, the possibility of mistaken identity was never a very realistic one.[SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP] In 1958 the Subversive Activities Control Board investigated a related case and confirmed Markward’s testimony that Moss’s name and address had appeared on the Communist party rolls in the mid-1940s. Several sources have reported this as proving that Moss was a Communist.[SUP][22][/SUP] More substantive is the evidence contained in Moss's FBI file, some of which wasn't revealed until the file was released through a Freedom of Information Act request. Andrea Friedman describes this evidence as "perhaps a dozen pieces of paper – included a list of 'party recruits' that identified Moss by name, race, age, and occupation; membership lists from two Communist party branches, the Communist Political Association, and various ad hoc committees containing Moss’s name and address, as well as the number of her Communist Party membership book; and receipt records from 1945 for Daily Worker subscriptions." Friedman concludes that Moss most likely had indirect contact with Communists through her cafeteria workers' union, and at most was probably a "casual recruit to the Communist Party, attracted by its social and economic justice politics," and later abandoned any associations with them.[SUP][23][/SUP]

[edit]
 
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billc

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From the another article on Mccarthy...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1439582/posts

Daniel J. Flynn
For generations of American students, the name Joe McCarthy and not Joe Stalin has been synonymous with evil. A practitioner of “black arts,” a “demon,” “ogreish,” and a “seditionist” are a few of the descriptions of him handed down to us from his first major biographer. The passage of time hasn’t tempered these hysterical reactions.
The late senator, the story goes, created a climate of fear in the early 1950s by conducting a witchhunt that called liberals “Communists” and Communists “spies.” We now know better. The witches were real. Today, even many of McCarthy’s most extreme and ridiculed statements—alleging “a conspiracy on a scale so immense” or lambasting “twenty years of treason” in Democratic administrations—seem, if anything, to understate the pervasiveness of Communist infiltration of the U.S. government and the enormity of its damage.
Documents from the Soviet Union’s archives, USSR spy messages deciphered by the U.S. government’s Venona program, and declassified FBI files and wiretaps all prove that hundreds of U.S. officials were agents of an international Communist conspiracy. If these previously inaccessible documents shed light on only a few of McCarthy’s specific charges, they certainly vindicate his general charge that security in the U.S. government was lax and that large numbers of Communists penetrated positions of great importance.


More so than any other witness, Annie Lee Moss purportedly exposed the cruelty and recklessness of Joseph McCarthy. Moss, who somehow jumped from an Army cafeteria worker to a clerk in the Pentagon code room, was labeled by McCarthy to be a loyalty risk. A middle-aged African American woman who walked to give her testimony with an elderly gait, Moss quickly gained the sympathy of Democrats on McCarthy’s committee. When asked about her knowledge of Karl Marx, Moss asked, “Who’s that?” The copies of The Daily Worker that arrived at her house were sent to the wrong address, she maintained. There were three Annie Lee Mosses in Washington, DC, her defenders intoned, so perhaps McCarthy had gotten the wrong woman.

McCarthy-haters seized on the Moss case as a club with which to beat anti-Communists. Edward R. Murrow devoted his weekly “See It Now” program to Mrs. Moss’s plight, while Missouri Senator Stu Symington told the witness that if she lost her job with the Army she could always come work for him. Just a year after McCarthy’s death it was revealed that he had indeed got the right woman. There was only one Annie Lee Moss in Washington, DC and it was the same Annie Lee Moss whose name and address appeared on the rolls of the local Communist Party. A former FBI agent even attested to seeing her actual Communist Party membership card from years earlier. If one U.S. Senator should be destroyed for allegedly making false accusations of Communism, what should the penalty be for another who announces to the world his willingness to give a Communist a job in his office?

So, back at you, have you no shame...

After McCarthy first made his charges public in February of 1950, Senate Democrats demanded that he stop hiding behind closed-door sessions and name names. Once McCarthy did what they asked, these very same Senate Democrats pounced on him for making charges without giving the accused the opportunity to defend themselves.
McCarthy’s enemies—supposed champions of civil liberties—tapped his phone, intercepted his incoming personal mail, placed a paid spy in his office, and illegally released his tax returns to the press (resulting in a large refund!). Herman recounts the amusing story of Paul Hughes, one that has been curiously forgotten by most McCarthy biographers. Hughes, a confidence man, convinced members of the Democratic National Committee, famous labor lawyer Joseph Rauh, and the Washington Post that he was a spy in McCarthy’s office and that he had evidence of major lawbreaking by the Senator. Rauh and a DNC leader paid more than $10,000 for the information, and the Post prepared a twelve-part series on the allegations, which included a bizarre tale about McCarthy stockpiling weapons in the basement of the Capitol, with an obvious implication of a coup. After nine-months of feeding absurd stories about McCarthy to liberals hungry for anything that would defame their enemy, Hughes was revealed as a fraud. The massive Post series was killed at the last minute.



There is that term again...Democrats...and on the wrong side even back then...
 
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And a little more on the topic...

http://www.humanevents.com/2003/05/23/how-senate-historian-botched-data-on-mccarthy/

The more we learn about the executive hearings on subversion held 50 years ago by Sen. Joe McCarthy (R.-Wis.), unveiled this month for public viewing, the more bizarre the tale becomes.
Though mostly covering the same terrain as did public probes run by McCarthy in ’53 and ’54, these 4,000-plus pages of closed-door sessions contain a lot of added information and should be a great resource for scholars. Assuming, that is, that anyone actually bothers to read them-rather than relying on the gloss supplied by Senate historian Donald Ritchie, who edited them for publication.
Ritchie penned an introduction to the hearings, plus editorial notes along the way, that variously slam McCarthy and/or stack the deck against him. In addition, he has been remarkably free with negative statements on McCarthy in dealing with the media, who have with few exceptions taken these as gospel. However, when the data are examined, the gap between Ritchie’s comments and demonstrable facts of record is astounding. Following are a few examples.

The hearing containing these exchanges and related bits of by-play was shown on TV and thereafter re-broadcast in part by Edward R. Murrow on his CBS program, "See It Now." The thrust of this reportage was that Mrs. Moss was a pitiful, dazed and harried victim smeared by the nefarious McCarthy. Such also is the standard version of the matter found in countless histories of the era.
Unfortunately for the standard version, and for Mrs. Moss, she gave herself away in testifying-volunteering one of the addresses where she had lived as 72 R St., S.W., in the District of Columbia. This went to the question of whether she was the individual named by Markward, who had seen the Communist Party records but not Mrs. Moss in person. The question would be resolved four years later when the Subversive Activities Control Board (SACB) obtained the records of the D.C. party-and there found an Annie Lee Moss, of 72 R St. S.W., listed as a party member in the middle ’40s.
Proof Positive on Moss
These records made the matter quite open and shut, rendering moot attempts to discredit Mrs. Markward, argue that there were three different Annie Lee Mosses in the phonebook, and other such rhetorical smokescreens. Whether Mrs. Moss was as befuddled as she appeared, or had been recruited into the party without knowing what she was doing, are debatable issues. What isn’t debatable is that this particular Annie Lee Moss, and no other, had been listed in official Communist records as a party member. The Markward testimony to McCarthy was 100% on target.
Senate historian Ritchie’s take on all of this is of interest, as he is the authority everyone else is quoting. In a fairly lengthy discussion of the case, he throws in a 24-word reference to the findings of the SACB, but so handled as to becloud them. He says the board confirmed Markward’s identification of Moss, but immediately adds that "the board conducted no further investigation of Moss" and that thereafter it had said "Markward’s testimony should be assayed with caution." These comments can only suggest to readers that there is some serious doubt about the Moss case-the more so as Ritchie follows up with an extended eulogy to Moss offered by a liberal writer, attesting to her blameless nature.
These comments, however, are thoroughly misleading. For one thing, the point of this particular SACB inquiry wasn’t to investigate Moss, but to gauge the credibility of Markward. There was no intent or reason for the SACB to investigate Moss beyond the acquisition of the Communist Party records, so Ritchie’s gratuitous comment about "no further investigation" is a red herring. No such further investigation of Moss had been in prospect.

However, numerous other comments by Ritchie are equally unhelpful.
For example, Ritchie suggests that McCarthy haled witnesses indiscriminately before his committee for the flimsiest of reasons, including people who had relatives who were Communists, had belonged to certain unions, and so forth. One McCarthy failing alleged by Ritchie, echoing the Moss dispute, was that he called up people "out of mistaken identity," a charge reiterated by the historian as subpoenaing someone who "simply had the same name as a Communist." As it happens, there is one conspicuous case in the record that fits this description, and it is most instructive.
This involved two people connected to activities at Fort Monmouth, a sensitive U.S. Army installation being investigated by McCarthy, both named Louis Kaplan. One of them had been identified as a Communist (and took the 5th Amendment when asked about it), while the other emphatically denied any such affiliation. As the second Louis Kaplan complained, he had been dogged constantly by the mix-up, and had all kinds of trouble with security types dating back to the early ’40s.
This unfortunate confusion was in no way the work of the McCarthy probe, as it had existed for many years before the investigation ever started. Moreover, rather than compounding the error, the committee sought to correct it. The exchanges on this between McCarthy staffers G. David Schine and Roy Cohn and the second Kaplan read in part as follows:
 
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billc

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Hmmm...from a previous post...


As for McCarthy, the man made accusations of disloyalty and treason, often based on nothing more than innuendo, and sometimes on less, and deserved a worse fate than a drunken death and having such contemptible practices named after him.


And the rest of the story...
As it happens, there is one conspicuous case in the record that fits this description, and it is most instructive.
This involved two people connected to activities at Fort Monmouth, a sensitive U.S. Army installation being investigated by McCarthy, both named Louis Kaplan. One of them had been identified as a Communist (and took the 5th Amendment when asked about it), while the other emphatically denied any such affiliation. As the second Louis Kaplan complained, he had been dogged constantly by the mix-up, and had all kinds of trouble with security types dating back to the early ’40s.
This unfortunate confusion was in no way the work of the McCarthy probe, as it had existed for many years before the investigation ever started. Moreover, rather than compounding the error, the committee sought to correct it. The exchanges on this between McCarthy staffers G. David Schine and Roy Cohn and the second Kaplan read in part as follows:

SCHINE: "Mr. Kaplan, of course our committee is interested in obtaining information on government departments and agencies’ efficiency; that means efficiency in both directions. Therefore, we would be just as much concerned with the firing of a capable person unjustly as we would be interested in the retention of one who was a security risk."
KAPLAN: "If you want to build some morale, check my case rapidly. I think it will help considerably."
SCHINE: "You have our assurance that we will get Mr. Adams, counselor to the department of Army, to check on this matter and it is going to be resolved very quickly."
KAPLAN: [some minutes later] "Mr. Cohn, I feel a whole lot better right now. . . ."
Thus there was indeed a mistaken identity in this case, but instead of creating the problem the McCarthy committee set out to fix it. Of course, to know the facts about the matter, one actually has to read the hearings, rather than relying on Ritchie’s comments.
The history of Mccarthy isn't as simple as some on these posts would make it...and really, the nazi thing again...do you guys always have to go there, especially when the nazis were socialists and lefties and nothing like American conservatives...

and a little more clearing of the air...

Concerning the larger issue at Fort Monmouth, Ritchie’s introductory statements are also intriguing. The public McCarthy hearings of 50 years ago made it quite clear, and these executive hearings confirm, that Monmouth was a security sieve. This was a matter of great importance, as the complex of laboratories there and related industrial outfits were engaged in top-secret projects involving radar, air defenses, and protection against guided missiles. Security should have been tight in such a set-up, but all too obviously it wasn’t.
As the McCarthy sessions showed, there had long been no effective system for keeping track of confidential papers, and people had been routinely allowed to take such documents off the premises. These conditions were the more disturbing as Monmouth and related labs had been a scene of action for convicted Communist agents Julius Rosenberg and Morton Sobell, and there were still a phenomenal number of people there who had been associates of this duo in one fashion or another.
A poster child for all these troubles was a high-ranking Monmouth employee named Aaron Coleman, who admitted to having attended a Young Communist League meeting with Rosenberg when they were in college, had dealings with Sobell up through the latter ’40’s, and also had a habit of taking documents from the office. In 1946, Army security agents had searched his apartment and found 43 confidential papers there-a security breach for which he had received a 10-day suspension.
On all of which, the comments of Ritchie in his introduction are telling. Recounting McCarthy’s interrogation of Coleman’s roommate about the papers in their apartment, the historian quotes an exchange in which McCarthy said security agents had "raided" the place, to which the roommate objected, saying it was merely "searched." McCarthy thought this a quibble, and accused the roommate of covering for Coleman. Ritchie cites this as an instance of McCarthy’s "use of inappropriate or inflammatory words to characterize [witnesses’] testimony. He took their objections as a sign they were covering up for something."
 
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billc

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For you granfire...

elder...
he fact is that at one time he said, "I have here in my hand a list of 205 names," and on another the number was 57-these were read into the congressional record, of course, so the question becomes: which was it? 205? or 57?


http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/vernon/080428


About the "205" communists

The WSJ piece retreads the tired old myth that McCarthy — in his Wheeling, W. Va., speech in February of 1950 — charged there were 205 communists and spies in the State Department.

That misquote has been discredited so many times — from the day after the speech until this very day — that it recalls the Goebbels theory that a lie, if repeated often enough, becomes the "truth." (That so many wildly inaccurate assertions would appear in just this one article is breathtaking.)

What really happened

On the day of McCarthy's Wheeling speech, a local reporter met the senator at the airport. He asked for and got an advance copy. But McCarthy warned Frank Desmond of the Wheeling-Intelligencer that what the reporter was getting was a rough draft and that extensive edits would be made before delivery.

Two witnesses have sworn McCarthy did give Desmond that warning. Later, Senate investigators — sent twice to Wheeling by Democrat committees — verified McCarthy's version. The Wisconsin senator recalled that what he had actually said at Wheeling was that there were 57 persons in the State Department "who were either card-carrying Communists or certainly loyal to the Communist Party."

080428vernon4.jpg
That is the crucial half of the story that the WSJ writer ignores. The half that he does include is that before the Wheeling speech, legendary ChicagoTribune reporter Willard Edwards had given McCarthy the 205 figure — on the basis of "more or less a rumor." Edwards was concerned because by then the AP had picked up the misreported Desmond story and sent it to news outlets all over the nation.

That half of the story, if accurate, in no way contradicts the other half, clearly indicating that Edwards' pre-speech conversation with McCarthy explains how the 205 figure made its way into the rough draft in the first place (before being dropped prior to his actual delivery). To mention the Edwards half without also recounting the first half qualifies as the kind of half-truth often equated with falsehood.

Closed-door vs. open hearings

Kessler points out that McCarthy called many more people to testify behind closed doors than were ultimately ordered to testify in public.

It is no deep, dark secret that among the very reasons for holding hearings in executive session before bringing witnesses before the public is to make certain no one is unfairly tarnished; also to ensure that people who have little or no useful relevant information to impart, or who could testify only as to classified or highly secret security matters, do not end up becoming part of the public record. This is generally accepted procedure on Capitol Hill. It was not unique to McCarthy.

080428vernon5.jpg
On this matter, the WSJ writer cites as an authority Senate Associate Historian Donald Ritchie. Kessler quotes Richie as saying McCarthy interviewed about 500 people
in closed session and called about 300 people in public hearings.

This column went back to the transcripts of the closed session hearings of 1953 and 1954, which were released in 2003. I counted only 437 witnesses in that five-volume set of hearings, and that includes many friendly witnesses (roughly 50-75) who either cooperated with the committee or who testified on windup sessions of committee probes that preceded McCarthy's chairmanship, or who appeared in connection with investigative hearings chaired by another committee member and over which McCarthy did not preside. Stan Evans says only about 30 of the unfriendly witnesses actually ended up in public hearings.

So if McCarthy nails witnesses in public, he's "smearing them" (never mind the evidence). If he questions them behind closed doors, he's conducting a "star chamber witch hunt."

Can't win under that scenario, and the senator's critics play the old game of "heads I win, tails you lose." But that — as Evans puts it in his book — is how Joseph R. McCarthy came to be Blacklisted by History.
 

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