Shoke ?

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Alton

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I am new at all this so if this is sometjing that is know by most of you please forgive my not knowing.
My grandson has started takeing lesson in Karate (I think) and I would like to take a few lesson with him . For my age I am in rather good shape (bench press 200 run a mile in under 8 min. do 75 to 100 situps at a time) so the physical part dose not bother me.
What I am concerned with is his instructor, a man the students say is the grandmaster or shoke(SP) of the school. Now I am not saying he cant do some impressive things but then I'm not a matrial artist. This guy can't be over 35 years old and says he got his sokeship last year. Is this possible ?Can this young man be a grandmaster or did he buy his title through some mail away store.
I want my grandson to study but I'm jusst not sure this fellow is real. I asked him what he was teaching and he said it was a combination of three or for things.Can't remember there names.
Would I be better off to drive my grandson to a larger area ,about an hour away, and have him study in some of the schools there. I amm not even sure how to tell one school from another. I know what looks good to me but dont know if its really any good.
Thank you,
Alton
 
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G

GouRonin

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Originally posted by Alton
What I am concerned with is his instructor, a man the students say is the grandmaster or shoke(SP) of the school. Now I am not saying he cant do some impressive things but then I'm not a matrial artist. This guy can't be over 35 years old and says he got his sokeship last year. Is this possible ?Can this young man be a grandmaster or did he buy his title through some mail away store.

Why don't you ask him about his lineage. Then go verify it. If I was visiting a Dr. and depending on her to do something for me I'd like to know where she did her residency.
 
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Kirk

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I don't think any respecting instructor would mind any potential
student questioning him or her on her lineage, or wrote down
the name of the style. One should boldly be able to say, "I want
to check you out, and make sure you're legit".
 

Cthulhu

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I agree with Kirk and Gou. If the guy is legitimate, he should have no reservations about proving his rank and lineage; in fact, he should welcome it.

Also, you don't obtain a 'sokeship' (that just looks wrong). Soke doesn't mean grandmaster, but instead, headmaster. It is the person responsible for the care and growth of a system. This isn't an awarded title, but is something inherited, often by a family member, though not always.

Please, give us more info on this guy: name, school/system name, location, etc. We'll see what we can come up with.

Cthulhu

PS - there's a guy in my area who is claiming to be a 10th dan in aikido, among other things. He's claiming 10th dan ranking in 3 or 4 systems, but can't even be 40 yet. VERY fishy.
 
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GouRonin

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He's a tenth in 3 or 4 systems and he's not yet 40?!?!?!?!
:soapbox:
 

Yari

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Originally posted by Cthulhu
PS - there's a guy in my area who is claiming to be a 10th dan in aikido, among other things. He's claiming 10th dan ranking in 3 or 4 systems, but can't even be 40 yet. VERY fishy.

Then I better hurry up.... I'm turning 38 this year and its a long way to go to 10 Dan.. :p I'll probalby hit 40 first... or 50... or 60... or...... :rofl:

To Alton : If in doubt, ask, and if your not shure go somewhere you feel good about it. Concerning our childrens education, be it MA or something else, we don't have to settle for nothing but the best we can find.




/yari
 
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fist of fury

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I would definately question him if he's legit he should have no problems explaning his lineage and styles to you. Also beware of his contact if he uses one. If he guarantess a black belt in his contract I would go somewhere else.
 
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Alton

Guest
I talked with mr Nelson last night. He says that he is the founder of Nelson Ryu.
That he stood befor a concle of fifteen (?)
grandmasters or headsof systems and presented his credentials in kenpo, akido ,and some others. Sorry dont remember all of them. Then he demonstrated his ability against verious attacks . After which he was awarded headship(?) of his own system. Claims this was at the WNAHOF. World Martial Arts Hallof Fame
Now I have another question : What is a hall of fame doing giveing outpapers that say someone is a head of a new system.
Anyways he told me who his instructors where ,Not that I remember now,but wanted more to tell me how good he was. HE seems to have to schoolsthe second being in Orange, Mass. and this one just outside North Adams.
Made my mind up to take my Grandson somewhere else. Don't like the arrogence that in see in the man .
Thanks to all of you for your help
Alton
 
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fist of fury

Guest
I've never heard of anyone being "rewarded" with tier own system. It sounds real shady to me it sounds like you made the right choice in pulling him out. Here's the web site to that organization.
http://www.twmahof.com/
 
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GouRonin

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Originally posted by Alton
I talked with mr Nelson last night. He says that he is the founder of Nelson Ryu.
That he stood befor a concle of fifteen (?)
grandmasters or headsof systems and presented his credentials in kenpo, akido ,and some others. Sorry dont remember all of them. Then he demonstrated his ability against verious attacks . After which he was awarded headship(?) of his own system. Claims this was at the WNAHOF. World Martial Arts Hallof Fame

Ah ha ha ha ha! **falling down laughing**

Originally posted by Alton
Made my mind up to take my Grandson somewhere else. Don't like the arrogence that in see in the man .
Thanks to all of you for your help
Alton

Smart move.
 

tshadowchaser

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I know the guy your talking about, or I should say I know of him. He opened up his school in Orange about a year ago. I didn't even know he was there for seven months. Teaches out of one of the churches and started with a class of about 30 kids and 10 adults becaue he teaches for some youth program.
Have gone over once or twice and sat quietly to watch class. Students doing diffrent moves to the same drill everyone in diffrent stances . Looked slopy. Most say he was one of the most positive reinforcement instructors I have ever seen, never saw him once tell a student they did anything wrong or correct them on anything. Sure is a lot diffrent breed of instructor than I have ever had.
Without flaming the guy lets just say I would sent my worst enemy to him but i would not let anyone i know study there.
Alton, sir, please take your grtandson some where else. There are a couple of schools in Bennington ,VT. you may have to look for them but they are there.I think one is at the fire station. If your willing to travel a way thee are schools in Greenfield, Mass. Look aroud I think you can do much better for your Grandson.
Shadow:mad:
 

arnisador

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Originally posted by Alton
I talked with mr Nelson last night. He says that he is the founder of Nelson Ryu.

I wonder if he teaches the full Nelson ryu system or only a part of it--half Nelson ryu.

As otehrs have mentioned, while this person may be legitimate it raises many flags. You may wish to keep looking.
 

Cthulhu

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This World Martial Arts Hall of Fame is utter BS! They have an application on their site where you can apply for soke, grandmaster, founder, Ph. D, M.A., or 'Doctor of Martial Arts'. What in the holy hell is a Doctor of Martial Arts? You know what it is? A load of excrement, that's what it is.

You've already made the right decision, Alton. Take your grandson somewhere else. Too bad there isn't a BBB for martial arts schools.

Cthulhu
 
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fist of fury

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Originally posted by Cthulhu
This World Martial Arts Hall of Fame is utter BS! They have an application on their site where you can apply for soke, grandmaster, founder, Ph. D, M.A., or 'Doctor of Martial Arts'. What in the holy hell is a Doctor of Martial Arts? You know what it is? A load of excrement, that's what it is.
Cthulhu
Bwhahahahah! dr of martial arts bwahahahahah!
 
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PaN

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there's a guy in my area who is claiming to be a 10th dan in aikido, among other things. He's claiming 10th dan ranking in 3 or 4 systems, but can't even be 40 yet. VERY fishy.

Well, I'm not familiar with other martial arts, but the Shihan of our Dojo has 10th Dan of Bujinkan Ninjutsu, and his 35... Is that weird? I mean, most of the Sensei's there are somewhere around 25 !
 

Cthulhu

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Originally posted by PaN


Well, I'm not familiar with other martial arts, but the Shihan of our Dojo has 10th Dan of Bujinkan Ninjutsu, and his 35... Is that weird? I mean, most of the Sensei's there are somewhere around 25 !

That actually isn't very peculiar, provided your shihan isn't claiming 10th dan ranking in other systems. If I remember correctly, which is highly unlikely, the Bujinkan system is a bit quirky in that the belt ranking has some sort of translation to the traditional Japanese menkyo system. I doubt that came across very clear; hopefully, Jay Bell can pop on and elaborate.

I was talking to some others yesterday, and it was discussed that often times, someone may earn a high rank in one system, and then give themselves the same rank in other systems, with little or no training in that other system. Apparently, they believe that earning the rank in their original system entitles them to the same rank in others, whether they're proficient in the other system or not.

But back to the original topic, I think Bujinkan is also different in that they have dan rankings past 10th, probably due to the conversion of the aforementioned menkyo system.

I hope somebody comes on (Jay?) and clears this up for me, since I've just confused the hell out've myself.

Cthulhu
 

arnisador

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Originally posted by Cthulhu
But back to the original topic, I think Bujinkan is also different in that they have dan rankings past 10th, probably due to the conversion of the aforementioned menkyo system.

Jay Bell has discussed this very issue on MartialTalk as well as other issues related to the menkyo system in general.
 
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PaN

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Well ,yes, there are Dans beyond 10th dan...
I thought that it would be harder to earn it in Ninjutsu then, say Karate :D
 
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GouRonin

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Originally posted by PaN
Well ,yes, there are Dans beyond 10th dan...
I thought that it would be harder to earn it in Ninjutsu then, say Karate :D

Nahhh, there are shysters everywhere!
 

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