Shawn Obasi & Emin Boztepe friendly Chi-sau

Anarax

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Of course, we all see what you're saying. I just don't see the relevance in the light, friendly, lets-keep-away-from-bashing discussion the OP reminded us he was trying to have in this thread just a few posts up from ours

That's how online forums work. If there's a topic you're familiar with then you share what you know, it's not about maintaining the "feelings" of a thread as long as you're respectful. Posting videos that show Shawn's poor attitude is relevant, nor is it "bashing" him. When you post something be prepared for others to disagree with you or at the very least give a different opinion.
 

wingchun100

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I have never understood why they asked Shawn to do kickboxing moves in that M1 video.
 

Anarax

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I have never understood why they asked Shawn to do kickboxing moves in that M1 video.

The only move he did in the video was a Roundhouse kick, I'm unsure if that's what Shawn's "kickboxing" comment was referring to though. The roundhouse kick is in numerous WC systems.
 

JowGaWolf

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Obasi Rolling with Emin,
Not sure if it's been said already but Obasi is too tense which is why he's having difficulty in dealing with the redirection of his guard and sensing the openings. His entire body is pulled forward and off balance because he was too tense.
 

Martial D

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What a weird thread. In every video the large African American gentleman establishes that he is objectively bad at chi sau. Why are there so many videos of him doing it with legit WC people?

*Confused*
 

KPM

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I've seen a lot of Shawn's videos and more times than not he comes off as a bully with something to prove. Years ago a WC instructor gave some constructive criticism on facebook about his Chi Sao. Shawn's response was going to the guys school and record him challenging him. Shawn challenges the instructor to......... "Chi Sao". Shawn muscles his way through it trying to overpower the guy and show him up. After the exchange Shawn uploads a video bragging about how much stronger and better he was than the WC instructor.

---A little more background is needed on this one! Kevin Gledhill is a WSLVT guy. He and small group of fellow WSLVT guys used to post all the time on the KFO forum. They were always on about how WSLVT was so much better then everyone else. That everyone else was doing a "broken" version of Wing Chun. It was just like LFT and Guy B. used to do here, but even worse! They were often very abrasive and insulting. The moderators at KFO refused to do anything about it. So it wasn't exactly "constructive" criticism that Kevin was giving. Obasi went to NY to essentially call Kevin out on all his trash talk. He handled Kevin pretty easily in that video as anyone can see. Later on Kevin tried to claim he thought it was just going to be a "friendly" roll and so he was not really trying to match Obasi or "win". Which....after all his trash talking and bull shixxing in the forum, no one believed! He caught all kinds of hell in the forum from people he had been so nasty too when that video became public that he quit the forum and disappeared. Not saying that Obasi is any kind of wiz at Chi Sau. Just saying that Kevin Gledhill turned out to NOT be the wiz he wanted everyone to believe he was! ;-)
 

paitingman

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That's how online forums work. If there's a topic you're familiar with then you share what you know, it's not about maintaining the "feelings" of a thread as long as you're respectful. Posting videos that show Shawn's poor attitude is relevant, nor is it "bashing" him. When you post something be prepared for others to disagree with you or at the very least give a different opinion.

You're the one who said your post may be nearing fraud busting. I don't actually hold a different opinion on Obasi than you appear to have. I also just gave my opinion that yeah your post might not be fitting the OPs intended discussion.
 

paitingman

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I do find it funny with Obasi and others though. Sometimes you see him doing chi sao "exercise" sort of like with the Boztepe. And other times you see him doing the type of chi sao you see in the Randy Williams clip or the Kevin Gledhill video.
The response to criticism questioning this kind of "chi sao" is usually something like "these guys don't know how to handle pressure" or "they can't fight" or something to that end, but at the same time there's clips of you doing and understanding chi sao as an exercise...
 

wingchun100

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The only move he did in the video was a Roundhouse kick, I'm unsure if that's what Shawn's "kickboxing" comment was referring to though. The roundhouse kick is in numerous WC systems.

Yes, but not all. At the Ip Ching school I attended, we were never shown roundhouse kicks. I also trained for a bit with someone from Ip Chun, and I said something like, "I don't see why Wing Chun can't incorporate LOW roundhouse kicks." That was met with stares of the hairy eyeball variety. LOL
 

Martial D

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Yes, but not all. At the Ip Ching school I attended, we were never shown roundhouse kicks. I also trained for a bit with someone from Ip Chun, and I said something like, "I don't see why Wing Chun can't incorporate LOW roundhouse kicks." That was met with stares of the hairy eyeball variety. LOL
There are three kicks in the WC syllabus I got. Round kick, oblique kick and front kick. Never above the waist.
 

Anarax

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I've seen a lot of Shawn's videos and more times than not he comes off as a bully with something to prove. Years ago a WC instructor gave some constructive criticism on facebook about his Chi Sao. Shawn's response was going to the guys school and record him challenging him. Shawn challenges the instructor to......... "Chi Sao". Shawn muscles his way through it trying to overpower the guy and show him up. After the exchange Shawn uploads a video bragging about how much stronger and better he was than the WC instructor.

---A little more background is needed on this one! Kevin Gledhill is a WSLVT guy. He and small group of fellow WSLVT guys used to post all the time on the KFO forum. They were always on about how WSLVT was so much better then everyone else. That everyone else was doing a "broken" version of Wing Chun. It was just like LFT and Guy B. used to do here, but even worse! They were often very abrasive and insulting. The moderators at KFO refused to do anything about it. So it wasn't exactly "constructive" criticism that Kevin was giving. Obasi went to NY to essentially call Kevin out on all his trash talk. He handled Kevin pretty easily in that video as anyone can see. Later on Kevin tried to claim he thought it was just going to be a "friendly" roll and so he was not really trying to match Obasi or "win". Which....after all his trash talking and bull shixxing in the forum, no one believed! He caught all kinds of hell in the forum from people he had been so nasty too when that video became public that he quit the forum and disappeared. Not saying that Obasi is any kind of wiz at Chi Sau. Just saying that Kevin Gledhill turned out to NOT be the wiz he wanted everyone to believe he was! ;-)

Interesting. Do you have a link to the thread and comments Kevin made? I tried searching for the exact thread Shawn was referring to, but I couldn't find anything. Thus I could only go off Shawn's account of events. I find it odd that Shawn did such a horrible job of explaining the situation. He himself says that Kevin only criticized his root and structure, which isn't completely unfounded.

Shawn then says " I'm not really concerned what he said" then says how if someone talks about him he's going to go "check him". I'm not saying nor did I say Kevin is innocent in all of this, but it was more so Shawn's attitude that I was criticizing. The other video I embedded also shows his bad attitude.

I've never met Kevin nor have any affiliation with him, thus I have no skin in the game. IMO, I saw very little Chi Sau in the video. I see one person doing more so play fighting(Shawn) and another person trying to do Chi Sau(Kevin). Shawn throwing knees, dropping back into a sparring stance, getting shots in then retreating, pushing so hard forward to the point he's off balance, grabbing Kevin's arms in place for more than half the video, I think are all of indicative of more than a sensitivity drill. If that's how your lineage does Chi Sau then that's fine, but I don't think Kevin was expecting that method when Shawn challenged him to Chi Sau.

I appreciate you giving more info on the history between him and Kevin, but I still don't agree with how Shawn handled that situation.
 

Anarax

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You're the one who said your post may be nearing fraud busting.

That was addressing the website administrators, Martial Talk has an anti-fraud busting policy. Obviously my comment didn't qualify or they would have intervened by now.
 

Anarax

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Yes, but not all. At the Ip Ching school I attended, we were never shown roundhouse kicks. I also trained for a bit with someone from Ip Chun, and I said something like, "I don't see why Wing Chun can't incorporate LOW roundhouse kicks." That was met with stares of the hairy eyeball variety. LOL

Yes, I understand that there are some WC systems that don't round kicks, but there are a lot that do. Both WC systems I've studied and the WC seminars I went to all have round kicks. Many traditional systems have some variation of round kicks, I think Shawn was just embarrassed that he fell down then trivializing it "I've never studied kickboxing/Muay Thai."
 

wingchun100

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Yes, I understand that there are some WC systems that don't round kicks, but there are a lot that do. Both WC systems I've studied and the WC seminars I went to all have round kicks. Many traditional systems have some variation of round kicks, I think Shawn was just embarrassed that he fell down then trivializing it "I've never studied kickboxing/Muay Thai."

Well, yeah, I would be embarrassed too, to go into that ring saying, "I am a good enough martial artist to compete." and then falling down.
 

KPM

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That was addressing the website administrators, Martial Talk has an anti-fraud busting policy. Obviously my comment didn't qualify or they would have intervened by now.

If they are paying attention. Often nothing happens unless somebody complains to them and reports it.
 

KPM

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Interesting. Do you have a link to the thread and comments Kevin made? I tried searching for the exact thread Shawn was referring to, but I couldn't find anything. Thus I could only go off Shawn's account of events. I find it odd that Shawn did such a horrible job of explaining the situation. He himself says that Kevin only criticized his root and structure, which isn't completely unfounded.

---That was a long time ago! I'd have to do a lot of searching as well. Kevin may not have addressed Obasi directly in the KFO forum. But I'm pretty sure Obasi was aware of his reputation for trash-talking everyone else's Wing Chun in that forum.

but it was more so Shawn's attitude that I was criticizing. The other video I embedded also shows his bad attitude.

---No problem. I'm not trying to defend or justify Obasi's behavior in any way! Just wanted to make sure that Kevin Gledhill wasn't portrayed as some kind of innocent victim here! ;)

but I don't think Kevin was expecting that method when Shawn challenged him to Chi Sau.

---First, Kevin was a trash-talker, he should very well expect that anyone that shows up to Chi Sau with him knows that and he should expect to be "pressed" or "challenged" a bit. If you are going to be an A-hole in public discourse, then you darn well better expect that people are going to be A-holes right back at you in person! Second, the minute it became apparent that Obasi had something in mind other than a "friendly roll" Kevin should have "stepped up his game" and proven that all of his WSLVT training was so much better than Obasi's training (as he had been saying). He should have simply met the amount of resistance and challenge he was feeling and responded in kind. But he didn't. And he KNEW the camera was rolling! For someone with a mouth as big as Kevin's, he did NOT back up all his talking in the video when he had the chance. For those here in the know....that would be like someone providing a video of LFJ in which he looked like some beginner in Wing Chun after all the talking he has done here. o_O
 

Anarax

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No problem. I'm not trying to defend or justify Obasi's behavior in any way! Just wanted to make sure that Kevin Gledhill wasn't portrayed as some kind of innocent victim here!
I wasn't interpreting your post as a defense for Shawn. You were just providing additional info on their history.

First, Kevin was a trash-talker, he should very well expect that anyone that shows up to Chi Sau with him knows that and he should expect to be "pressed" or "challenged" a bit. If you are going to be an A-hole in public discourse, then you darn well better expect that people are going to be A-holes right back at you in person! Second, the minute it became apparent that Obasi had something in mind other than a "friendly roll" Kevin should have "stepped up his game" and proven that all of his WSLVT training was so much better than Obasi's training (as he had been saying). He should have simply met the amount of resistance and challenge he was feeling and responded in kind. But he didn't. And he KNEW the camera was rolling! For someone with a mouth as big as Kevin's, he did NOT back up all his talking in the video when he had the chance. For those here in the know....that would be like someone providing a video of LFJ in which he looked like some beginner in Wing Chun after all the talking he has done here.

I can't say exactly how I feel about Kevin considering I haven't seen the exact posts.

Overall I find the idea of showing up to someone's MA school and challenging them over an online post to be silly. I especially find it absurd that he challenges Kevin to a drill. Some people simply adhere to the rules more closely than others when doing drills and other forms of training. Kevin even said in the end "this isn't Chi Sau" and looked confused. I'm not defending Kevin, but Shawn's approach is very petty and in the end doesn't really prove anything.
 

KPM

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Overall I find the idea of showing up to someone's MA school and challenging them over an online post to be silly. I especially find it absurd that he challenges Kevin to a drill. Some people simply adhere to the rules more closely than others when doing drills and other forms of training. Kevin even said in the end "this isn't Chi Sau" and looked confused. I'm not defending Kevin, but Shawn's approach is very petty and in the end doesn't really prove anything.

---Well, "free" Chi Sau is short of a fight. I would call what they were doing in that video "Gor Sau", which plenty of people do as part of Chi Sau training. And if Obasi had really given Kevin a beat down rather then just pressing him in Chi Sau, plenty of people would have cheered! ;) And "free" Chi Sau is part of the training in any Wing Chun lineage so it was silly of Kevin to say "this isn't Chi Sau." LOTS of video is out there of Phillip Bayer doing his thing. It is always Chi Sau....and not always "cooperative" Chi Sau. There is plenty of footage of him blasting away at a partner and chasing them back into a wall. So why couldn't Kevin do that to Shawn? Why couldn't he totally dominate and land shots freely as Phillip Bayer does in his seminar footage if WSLVT is so much superior to Shawn Obasi's Wing Chun? It is not silly to go to someone in person and expect them to back up their trash talking after they have spent so much time on-line insulting and denigrating other Wing Chun people and their lineages. The only way to get to a real "put up or shut up" point is in person! And after this encounter, Kevin Gledhill "shut up" and left the forum. And Obasi didn't "ambush him", Obasi didn't actually hurt him. Obasi simply embarrassed him. And he had it coming! I'm not defending Shawn, but Kevin was an A-hole and it was only a matter of time before someone made him "put up or shut up." And it certainly did prove something! It proved that Kevin was a trash-talker and when the chips were down he wasn't as good as he wanted everyone to think! Think of the footage that Obasi has put up...who has he Chi Sau'd with? People with reputations in Wing Chun....Kwok, Boztepe, Williams. So why Gledhill? It was because Gledhill had this reputation for representing Bayer's version of WSLVT in the US and for trash-talking and insulting everyone else.
 
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Anarax

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Well, "free" Chi Sau is short of a fight. I would call what they were doing in that video "Gor Sau", which plenty of people do as part of Chi Sau training.
To a reasonable degree I understand what you're saying. It's the idea of using Chi Sau as a means to "check" someone is what I disagree with.

And if Obasi had really given Kevin a beat down rather then just pressing him in Chi Sau, plenty of people would have cheered!
Is Kevin that hated in the WC community? That bad that people would enjoy seeing him keep seriously injured?

LOTS of video is out there of Phillip Bayer doing his thing. It is always Chi Sau....and not always "cooperative" Chi Sau.There is plenty of footage of him blasting away at a partner and chasing them back into a wall. So why couldn't Kevin do that to Shawn? Why couldn't he totally dominate and land shots freely as Phillip Bayer does in his seminar footage if WSLVT is so much superior to Shawn Obasi's Wing Chun?
I understand, but Sifu Bayer is usually doing this at seminars and with his students. I never heard of Sifu Bayer going to someone's WC school and challenging them to Chi Sau to show them up. The intentions and dynamics are completely different. There is also a relative understanding that they're doing Chi Sau when Sifu Bayer and his partner are doing it. I've yet to see Sifu Bayer throw nor have to counter flying knees in Chi Sau.

It is not silly to go to someone in person and expect them to back up their trash talking after they have spent so much time on-line insulting and denigrating other Wing Chun people and their lineages. The only way to get to a real "put up or shut up" point is in person! And after this encounter, Kevin Gledhill "shut up" and left the forum.
If someone comes to your school and challenges you that's one thing, it's another when you seek out conflicts. If Shawn feels the need to challenge anyone and everyone who criticizes his Chi Sau then that's on him. It's petty and honesty seems quite childish. I would have to see Kevin's posts before I can judge him. Shawn himself said he criticized his root and structure. I googled Kevin and I couldn't find anything relating to his insulting comments.

And it certainly did prove something! It proved that Kevin was a trash-talker and when the chips were down he wasn't as good as he wanted everyone to think!
Did it? I see someone with bad "Chi Sau" trying desperately to prove he has good Chi Sau by not doing Chi Sau. Can you honestly watch that video and say Shawn has great structure and a strong root? If not, did he prove his point?

Think of the footage that Obasi has put up...who has he Chi Sau'd with? People with reputations in Wing Chun....Kwok, Boztepe, Williams. So why Gledhill? It was because Gledhill had this reputation for representing Bayer's version of WSLVT in the US and for trash-talking and insulting everyone else
I understand, his Chi Sau with the masters is completely different than with Kevin. His energy and intentions are entirely different. It's similar with his Chi Sau with Randy Williams, he had something to prove thus his intentions were different. Shawn has 2 different versions of Chi Sau, drill-version or something to prove version.
 

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