Sexualising Women’s Sport

[Gyakuto114 123]

There’s a lot of backlash over Syndney Sweeney’s (who?) betting company advertising campaign. The controversy surrounds the sexualisation of female athletes and highlights a genuine tension between personal agency and commercial exploitation. Women should be free to embrace their appearance and sexuality without being automatically judged or reduced to it; but some critics argue that the relentless emphasis on physical attractiveness reinforces a culture in which female athletes are valued as much for their bodies as for their sporting ability. The issue is therefore less about whether women can be portrayed as attractive, and more about who controls the portrayal, why it is being promoted, and whether athletic achievement is being overshadowed by sexual appeal.

Due to lewd comments posted by men on social media, cameras at televised athletics competitions in Europe will be positioned at strategic angles during events (such as the women’s pole vault) in order to preserve the athletes’ modesty.

What do you think about this?

 

[O'Malley101 12]

It's a good idea to ask here, and I hope you'll get some female opinions, since most MT members are at least somewhat committed to a form of sports.

My 0.02 as a male. The ad is so unsubtle that it's almost comical: you have an attractive, topless woman with sports accessories suggestively inviting you to bet on sports. I wouldn't even say that the ad is supposed to represent a female athlete any more than the stereotypical sexy nurse is meant to represent health professionals. It's just a "babe" in cosplay. No point in blaming the girl either, as she doesn't owe anything to the - noble - cause of improving female representation in culture.

I get why female athletes are pissed though given the obstacles they face in being taken seriously as athletes. The company in question should take full blame because it shows they're out of touch with modern society. It's terrible taste, it represents outdated views on women and shows that the company's missing some important values. And hell, I'm offended they even thought it'd work on the average male, it's like when exhibitors at E3 would put "babes" near their stands to attract supposedly incel videogame journalists. I wouldn't expect that ad to work unless you're from some god-forsaken place and have never seen a naked woman who is not your cousin. Come on.

 

[Prince_Alarming114 144]

I think a lot of the 'boys will be boys' behaviour is performative anyway. We're not vile, degenerate slavering beasts, at least not all the time. We just pretend to be to get the 'approval' of other men. So yeah, this is a badly judged campaign. It's not flattering to anybody's intelligence, and it doesn't speak well of the values of the people who commissioned it. Hopefully some women will be along in a bit to give a more informed response.

 

[skribs113 134]

Athletes usually have attractive bodies. This goes for both men and women athletes. Women are often attracted to male athletes. Men are often attracted to female athletes. Women will make lewd comments about male athletes. Men will make lewd comments about female athletes.

Sex sells. It always has and always will.

Personally, I've put a lot of work into shaping my body for my martial arts. I want to have the highest strength-to-weight ratio I can for competition. Over the last 2 years I've lost fat and gained muscle. I'm back to about the same weight I was, but the ratio is much better. And as a side effect? I look better. People have been commenting on my looks. I don't take it as derogatory against my skill or my sport. I take it as a compliment for the work that I've put in. Although those comments have not been lewd.

The bigger the spotlight you have, the more people commenting on you (especially anonymously), yes there's going to be people making rude comments. That's true of anything. It's true of celebrities or notable figures in any field. It's true of athletes.

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

I believe Sydney Sweeney is a major shareholder in the betting company. I’ve also heard that she has previously supported Trump so is pretty hated around the world and this backlash could be related to that fact.

This is a stereotype, but I suspect this sort of advert would completely appeal to the types of people who are into betting on events.

 

[O'Malley101 12]

Athletes usually have attractive bodies. This goes for both men and women athletes. Women are often attracted to male athletes. Men are often attracted to female athletes. Women will make lewd comments about male athletes. Men will make lewd comments about female athletes.

Sex sells. It always has and always will.

Personally, I've put a lot of work into shaping my body for my martial arts. I want to have the highest strength-to-weight ratio I can for competition. Over the last 2 years I've lost fat and gained muscle. I'm back to about the same weight I was, but the ratio is much better. And as a side effect? I look better. People have been commenting on my looks. I don't take it as derogatory against my skill or my sport. I take it as a compliment for the work that I've put in. Although those comments have not been lewd.

The bigger the spotlight you have, the more people commenting on you (especially anonymously), yes there's going to be people making rude comments. That's true of anything. It's true of celebrities or notable figures in any field. It's true of athletes.

Not disagreeing, but there's more to it than this. Female athletes struggle to be taken seriously as athletes. People are throwing dildos on the pitch during WNBA matches to promote a stupid memecoin, and they do it because the athletes on the pitch are women (and a lot of them are lesbians). That context helps understand the reactions to the ad, which promotes the exact opposite of an actual female athlete: a cosplayer valued for her femininity and physical attractiveness over athletic qualities.

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

When training in their athletics clubs it seems sports people wear looser fitting, fuller-coverage clothing when and yet when they enter the stadium they wear briefs, crop tops, full makeup and often, jewellery too (sprinters in particular). So are they complicit in eroticising their athletic form?

But, in a similar vein, young women should be able to safely wear whatever they like when they go out clubbing and not fear sexual comments or, Odin forbid, sexual assault. But I wouldn’t smear myself in meat juice and then walk through a lion’s den. But, men are not lions…

A man receiving unsolicited sexual comments is very different to a woman receiving them. It’s not logical, but it’s true.

Sex sells things because we allow it to by buying those things. Tabloid newspaper harassment of celebrities occurs because idiots buy tabloid newspapers filled with tittle-tattle and lies. Just stop it!

 

[skribs113 134]

Not disagreeing, but there's more to it than this. Female athletes struggle to be taken seriously as athletes. People are throwing dildos on the pitch during WNBA matches to promote a stupid memecoin, and they do it because the athletes on the pitch are women (and a lot of them are lesbians). That context helps understand the reactions to the ad, which promotes the exact opposite of an actual female athlete: a cosplayer valued for her femininity and physical attractiveness over athletic qualities.

The existence of this ad isn't going to make more people do that. And if this ad didn't exist, it's nonexistence wouldn't cause this to happen less.

I wasn't very informed about this ad or controversy when the thread started, but a lot of talking heads have been talking about it this week. We have to factor in things like:

• One of the athletes criticizing Sidney Sweeney had participated on the show Love Island.
• Many female athletes have posed nude, whether you're talking Olympians posing for dirty magazines, martial artists posing for the Maxim Top 100, or entire teams selling nude calendars for fundraising.
• Often in sports where there are options for the required uniform, the women choose to wear the most revealing option. Beach volleyball is the perfect example, women can wear a one-piece or a tankini but choose to wear the bikini.
• From my understanding, this ad was produced and directed by Sydney. So this is coming from a woman.

What you're describing is something that shouldn't be happening. My issue isn't with the treatment of the female athletes (it's insulting, but it's not causing any real harm). My issue is with that happening on the field, where kids might be present. It's very different if we're talking about lewd comments online where kids aren't going to read it, vs. actual sexual objects being used at events where kids are present. Those events should be handled by the police.

But the existence of this ad (or of any adult content involving actresses pretending to be female athletes) causing people to have poor behavior is like saying that violent movies or video games cause real-world violence. It's just not the case. If it were the case, we'd need to take all the martial arts movies off the internet because they might inspire someone to hit someone else.

 

[Holmejr13 12]

Men like to see women’s bodies because we tend to be visual and imaginative. Whereas women tend to be more touch oriented. Playboy magazine was at one time amazingly popular, as it satisfied the visual proclivity for men. They then came out with Playgirl magazine because well meaning, but stupid people thought that is what women wanted. They did not and more gays bought the magazine than women. Modern society has been attempting to take the man out of the man for a long time. Toxic masculinity’s definition is brood and seemingly in the eye of the beholder. There are some that even include MA in this. That is why MA in the west is morphing from fighting to a path to inner healing.
What do you guys think?

 

[Prince_Alarming114 144]

I think there is no crisis in masculinity. Today's men are stronger and better educated than ever before, we just don't think watching the baby for 5 minutes or doing the laundry for once is too much to ask. Mainly because we have vivid memories of our mothers screaming something of the sort at our fathers.

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

Playboy magazine was at one time amazingly popular, as it satisfied the visual proclivity for men.

I bought it for the articles

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

We accept men and women, quite rightly, have equal rights. Thus they should expect to be treated by the same standards and in the same way.

Female athletes are not being afforded those rights because of the anonymity of people posting these lewd comments on social media. If they were identifiable, I’m sure most of the problem would go away because of fear of girlfriends/wives/children/bosses/colleagues becoming privy to their ‘opinions’.

 

[O'Malley101 12]

When training in their athletics clubs it seems sports people wear looser fitting, fuller-coverage clothing when and yet when they enter the stadium they wear briefs, crop tops, full makeup and often, jewellery too (sprinters in particular). So are they complicit in eroticising their athletic form?

They have the right to wear the clothing they want as long as it respects decency standards, which usually means covering the breast and crotch/buttocks area. And as long as it endangers no one they have the right to wear jewelry. The question is not about a hypothetical (and subjective) "eroticising" of athletic form but whether a person is treated with respect. I obviously can't speak from personal experience but it stands to reason that women participate in sports competition first and foremost for sports-related reasons, care about performance more than appearance, and wear whatever they're comfortable in.

But, in a similar vein, young women should be able to safely wear whatever they like when they go out clubbing and not fear sexual comments or, Odin forbid, sexual assault. But I wouldn’t smear myself in meat juice and then walk through a lion’s den. But, men are not lions…

A man receiving unsolicited sexual comments is very different to a woman receiving them. It’s not logical, but it’s true.

It's quite straightforward, actually. Sexual assault and harassment are criminal offenses that should not happen. What the victim is wearing has absolutely nothing to do with the legal and moral character of such acts. When a rich person gets robbed in a poor neighbourhood, you know that objectively walking around in expensive clothes made them a more attractive target, but you'll rightly hear people talk first and foremost about insecurity in those neighbourhoods and how to solve the problem. No one with common sense will blame the victim for what they were wearing. This should apply to sexual harassment but the victim-blaming in those cases has a cultural origin.

Sex sells things because we allow it to by buying those things. Tabloid newspaper harassment of celebrities occurs because idiots buy tabloid newspapers filled with tittle-tattle and lies. Just stop it!

Agreed.

The existence of this ad isn't going to make more people do that. And if this ad didn't exist, it's nonexistence wouldn't cause this to happen less.

I wasn't very informed about this ad or controversy when the thread started, but a lot of talking heads have been talking about it this week. We have to factor in things like:

• One of the athletes criticizing Sidney Sweeney had participated on the show Love Island.
• Many female athletes have posed nude, whether you're talking Olympians posing for dirty magazines, martial artists posing for the Maxim Top 100, or entire teams selling nude calendars for fundraising.
• Often in sports where there are options for the required uniform, the women choose to wear the most revealing option. Beach volleyball is the perfect example, women can wear a one-piece or a tankini but choose to wear the bikini.
• From my understanding, this ad was produced and directed by Sydney. So this is coming from a woman.

Which does not change the fact that women have the right to do the things you mentioned. BTW bikini in sports have been around since Ancient Rome.

What you're describing is something that shouldn't be happening. My issue isn't with the treatment of the female athletes (it's insulting, but it's not causing any real harm). My issue is with that happening on the field, where kids might be present. It's very different if we're talking about lewd comments online where kids aren't going to read it, vs. actual sexual objects being used at events where kids are present. Those events should be handled by the police.

But the existence of this ad (or of any adult content involving actresses pretending to be female athletes) causing people to have poor behavior is like saying that violent movies or video games cause real-world violence. It's just not the case. If it were the case, we'd need to take all the martial arts movies off the internet because they might inspire someone to hit someone else.

It's not that the ad will cause people to have poor behaviour, I think the criticism from female athletes towards the ad boils down to 1) Sweeny doesn't represent female athletes, nor women in sports; and 2) the ad represents values and a culture that doesn't take female athletes seriously and values them for their physical attractiveness over athletic merit. That's why a lot of women expressed their rejection of what the ad means.

Men like to see women’s bodies because we tend to be visual and imaginative. Whereas women tend to be more touch oriented. Playboy magazine was at one time amazingly popular, as it satisfied the visual proclivity for men. They then came out with Playgirl magazine because well meaning, but stupid people thought that is what women wanted. They did not and more gays bought the magazine than women. Modern society has been attempting to take the man out of the man for a long time. Toxic masculinity’s definition is brood and seemingly in the eye of the beholder. There are some that even include MA in this. That is why MA in the west is morphing from fighting to a path to inner healing.
What do you guys think?

MA have been used for self-development for centuries, including in premodern Japan and China for example. And even in the West most martial arts have long been used as a form of physical education, unless you're talking about tactical combat training.

I think there is no crisis in masculinity. Today's men are stronger and better educated than ever before, we just don't think watching the baby for 5 minutes or doing the laundry for once is too much to ask. Mainly because we have vivid memories of our mothers screaming something of the sort at our fathers.

Amen.

 

[Holmejr13 12]

I bought it for the articles

Uncanny! My dad said that also!

 

[Holmejr13 12]

We accept men and women, quite rightly, have equal rights. Thus they should expect to be treated by the same standards and in the same way.

Female athletes are not being afforded those rights because of the anonymity of people posting these lewd comments on social media. If they were identifiable, I’m sure most of the problem would go away because of fear of girlfriends/wives/children/bosses/colleagues becoming privy to their ‘opinions’.

Ahh, the magic of anonymity! Reveals the nature of mankind…

 

[skribs113 134]

We accept men and women, quite rightly, have equal rights. Thus they should expect to be treated by the same standards and in the same way.

Men and women have equal rights, and that means that they should be protected from discrimination by the government.

But while there is definitely some overlap, especially anecdotally, typically men and women have different desires, skills, sensibilities, worldviews, etc. Those shape how they interact with other people, and in turn how other people interact with them.

If we were completely the same, we wouldn't have separate brackets and leagues for women in sports.

Which does not change the fact that women have the right to do the things you mentioned. BTW bikini in sports have been around since Ancient Rome.

They do have that right. However, while they also have the right to turn around and criticize other women for doing those things, they also are not free from the consequence of looking like a hypocrite when they do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I bought it for the articles

When I (as an early teen) found my dad's stash, I was very excited about the cultural articles. Fascinating reading...

 

[Gyakuto114 123]

When I (as an early teen) found my dad's stash, I was very excited about the cultural articles. Fascinating reading...

Hmmm yes indeed. As and Indian my older brother subscribed to ‘Bombay Budunka-dunks’

 

[drop bear114 53]

So I just watched the ad itself. And it is kind of cringe.

I don't have an issue with women being attractive or using that to sell their product. I just thought this was just so blatant. Where say Sophie Cunningham still sells attractive but in a much better way for ne.

Like I used to tell people in pubs. There is a fine line between cheeky and funny and weird and creepy.

And you just crossed it.

 

[Buka29 3]

Sydney Sweeny’s the one that came up with both the idea and particulars of that ad. Now everyone’s talking about it. Even on forums.

Maybe she should be taken to the Castle Anthrax from The Holy Grail movie for penance.