Series Within Forms

[Steel Tiger]

The other day I began to think about that occurs in one of the forms I know. This is a linear bagua form with thirty double hand movements for a total of sixty total movements. Within this form there is a set of movements, while not the same share a similar conceptual basis. They are not together, thus forming a distinct block. Rather they are spread in such a way that there is one (or two depending on how you look at it) per set of ten movements.

I was wondering has anyone else noticed similar things in their forms, kata, patterns, what have you?

 

[tshadowchaser]

what you are describing happens in many forms where a hand sequence is separated by a kick, throw, blocking sequence before the next hand sequence takes place

 

[terryl965]

I also believe there is a mini series withen every poomsae or form I have ever done. great observation.

 

[Steel Tiger]

what you are describing happens in many forms where a hand sequence is separated by a kick, throw, blocking sequence before the next hand sequence takes place

Its a little bit more than that (at least I think it is). As the form I am thinking of is a bagua form there are many hand techniques. Many more than the kicks and throws represented. My teacher told me that these three techniques are a set and I have pondered it for years now and think I understand. The similarity is beyond the gross movements and goes into the essential concept behind them.

If they were to be performed in a direct sequence one would see some similarity but would question how they could form a set.

 

[tshadowchaser]

any chance you have a viedo of this form or part of it or know where i can see it
i have seen a few Bugua forms in the past and I realise that the techniques sometimes seem to run togeather so I am courious to see the form you are talking about to see if my eyes can pick up the different sets

 

[Steel Tiger]

any chance you have a viedo of this form or part of it or know where i can see it
i have seen a few Bugua forms in the past and I realise that the techniques sometimes seem to run togeather so I am courious to see the form you are talking about to see if my eyes can pick up the different sets

Unfortunately I don't have any video of the form. The interesting thing about this one is that it is a Liu style form, meaning it is linear rather circular, and each technique is quite distinct with the performer returning to a set position after completing the technique for each hand and before beginning the next. It is called Eight Thunders Serpent Palm (Ba Zhen Shi Zhang).

 

[Danny T]

The other day I began to think about that occurs in one of the forms I know. This is a linear bagua form with thirty double hand movements for a total of sixty total movements. Within this form there is a set of movements, while not the same share a similar conceptual basis. They are not together, thus forming a distinct block. Rather they are spread in such a way that there is one (or two depending on how you look at it) per set of ten movements.

I was wondering has anyone else noticed similar things in their forms, kata, patterns, what have you?

I tend to look at all forms as simply movements, transitions, and final positions. The applications will be based upon the spatial relationships. For the most part we tend to see the most obvious [techniques] and not the implied. I believe the forms imply far more than what is obvious and the more the movement is shown in the form the more important the movement is toward applications. In my observations I find many are taught to look at forms as technique rather than possibilities therefore miss a large amount of applications. Looking at the entire movement and being able to utilize all portions of the movements as available application will give the practitioner a much greater depth of their art. In some of our forms we have movements performed at the same time with each side. Exact mirror image. However, in application one would never do the movements together. When applied with one side doing that movement and the opposite side doing the movement preceding or following the mirrored movement the applications become apparent.

Good observation on your part.

Danny T

 

[Steel Tiger]

In some of our forms we have movements performed at the same time with each side. Exact mirror image. However, in application one would never do the movements together. When applied with one side doing that movement and the opposite side doing the movement preceding or following the mirrored movement the applications become apparent.

This is interesting because the form I have mentioned operates in thirty double hand units. A technique is performed on each side, however, they are not symetrical, not mirror images. The technique is clearly the same its just that the entry is different. It is considered to be something of a nod to the Daoist concept of continual change, no consecutive similarity.