Self Defense in Public Schools

[artist89]

With my school( HIgh School) they give suspensions in school so you stay in a room and do all your work all day or you stay at home for a certain amount of days and do your work all day. So my question is how do you defend yourself if they give suspenion to both people?

 

[TonyM.]

You don't. I was assaulted in the lavatory of a public school by an assailant with a knife and was able to shove him out an open first floor window and escape. I was suspended for a week as well. The more things change the more they stay the same.That happened in the sixties.

 

[rutherford]

In 4th grade, a big kid punched me in the face. I didn't do anything but go tell a teacher and we both got 5 days out. The was the last time I didn't fight back, in school.

In my experience, fighting in schools is really not at all about the teachers or the rules. It's more like fighting in prison, and has to do with establishing dominance. For boys, at least, there's often no other choice.

However, it's also my experience that no matter how rough the school, you shouldn't have to fight very often if it's not your thing. If you're not easy prey, you should get left alone unless somebody has a specific grudge against you.

My advice is to let the other guy hit you first. Then, try not to hurt them too badly. Don't worry about the time out. It's not such a big deal.

(I won't talk about the fights I started, because I don't recommend you go that route.)

 

[TigerWoman]

That's why I thought it was good that everyone in our high school, class of 450 x 3 knew my kids were black belts, actually really good ones. Never once were they threatened. But they were teased, taunted, and talked about behind their backs. Words aren't anything but if it comes to physical danger, I told my kids to defend themselves. Better to be suspended than to be dead. But it is most important to avoid situations altogether. TW

 

[BrandiJo]

i only got in one fight and when i got suspended my mom took me shopeing cus i was right, the kid hit me frist i hit her back and then the teacher showed up. It wasnt a big deal to me it was befor i ever started TKD so i didnt have to worry about what my TKD school would say about me fighting either

 

[GAB]

Yes Siree.

Schools you have to love their way of teaching, creating bullies and snitches.

My Sons and oldest Grandson (16) got suspended for fighting, once apiece. Then with the damage done to the others, they were left alone...

I remember going to a meeting with the VP back in the 70s. Your son did not start it, but he broke the other kids nose and caused him to have 5 stiches in his face he needs to be suspended.
Yes, I agree. But he is only a 10th grader and the other was a 12th grader, I will talk to him... Big Kids and Grand Kids...

I did, and he did not go to school for a few days and he practiced with his ATC, worked out and beat the bag he was pumped, went about his normal life and he is a very nice human being today, still practices everyday at Martial arts of some kind...
All three of his children go to the Dojo, one is an Orange belt and the others are Yellow belts... I personally tell them they are gold, but hey, its not my school, that is what they are called in Okinawan karate...Good youngsters program, when they get older they will go into Kosho...

Regards, Gary

 

[Cryozombie]

I found it Ironic that my school had, as an Option for Phys Ed class, a Self Defense class, but would issue an 8 Hour Saturday Detention if you did defend yourself in school.

:idunno:

School policy is stupid anyhow...

I had a teacher threaten to shove a tennis racket down my throat, for hitting tennis balls out of the court. So I walked out of class and to the office and explained what happened, I got a "Im sure the teacher did not mean it" and a 3 day suspension for leaving class without permission.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

That was in the 80's... I hear they are worse now.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I was in a few fights in school back in the 60's but they happened in the locker room and everyone involved played football so the coach handled the problem. Most of the time back then we would just agree to meet off the school grounds after school and settle things.

Now in my town if your in school and get caught fighting even out of school your suspended. What ever happened to being able to defend yourself? Why punish both the aggressor and the victim?
I think schools have gone way overboard with the way they handle fighting in school. Some things need to be looked at as seperate cases and delt with that way.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

With my school( HIgh School) they give suspensions in school so you stay in a room and do all your work all day or you stay at home for a certain amount of days and do your work all day. So my question is how do you defend yourself if they give suspenion to both people?

When you get into a fight as an adult, typically both parties are arrested, just as both parties in your school are arrested. In the situation of a adult altercation, the person claiming self defense better have their ducks in line, if not some reliable witness who claim he did EVERYTHING to avoid the altercation and had no choice but to defend himself.

In your situation it is far more common for two young men to fight...just to fight. Self defense isn't usually the situation. If you want to plead self defense, you might want to hold yourself to the public standard and do EVERYTHING you can to defuse the situation...including running.

Not likely, eh?

If you're getting harrassed on a daily basis, build up a record for the harrasser by reporting it duly. Have your parents start a paper trail of complaints of violence against you. When you do in fact defend yourself you can then refer to the complaints you've made as proof you tried to get the administration to intercede. BTW...defending yourself isn't:

1. Mouthing off to someone or antagonizing him somehow, getting hit, and then "defending yourself."
2. Pre-empting the attack by hitting him first...and by that I mean like first thing in the morning or from behind.

Regards,


Steve

 

[GAB]

HHJH,

That is a good one do it early and have the whole day off, not or but and...

Good one...

Regards, Gary

 

[rutherford]

There's never a point to the "meet me at the park and we'll fight it out" kind of stuff. It's also extremely dangerous. Too many people will bring their friends . . . or a pair of guys named Smith & Wessen . . . Heckler & Koch . . . you get the idea. Don't ever agree to this.

The only smart way to do this is to invite them to a boxing ring, or an open sparring session. And I'm sorry to say you're unlikely to meet anybody with enough maturity to accept those terms. The kind of people with something to prove always want to do it on their terms.

If you get time to talk, say something like "Look, you're totally cool with me. I don't want to fight you, but if you hit me I'm going to hit you back." Mean it and project it with your whole self. Say it matter of factly, and with no malice. It might work, depending on how smart the other guy is.

Lots of times, especially when somebody just loses their cool for a second, attacks will come without followup. Somebody will throw a punch, and then start regretting it as soon as they do it. The best thing to do here is just to block it, dodge it, or just take the punch and laugh. Hell, say thank you afterwards and just go about your day. No point to these kind of fights either.

Conversely, if you do get into a fight, or if you lose your cool and start one, don't think for a instant that there's a way out. Once you make an attack, don't stop until the fight is over or you have a clear means of escape - and watch out for the other guy's friends! The key here is to survive, and I'm not joking. An untrained kid is totally capable of lethel force.

I don't know how you'll ever tell the difference. The best I can say is good luck, and keep a good heart.

This kinda stuff never goes away. Keep your head up. Try to rise above it. Hopefully it all works out.

 

[KenpoTex]

I think our society in general has gone too far with the "violence is never an answer" and "zero tolerance" stuff. In schools it creates bullies, in the real world it encourages predators.

In this type of situation, you should do everything you can to avoid trouble, don't let your ego affect your judgement. There is a difference between a childish fight (mutual combat) and a real self-defense situation (being targeted by someone with violent intent). HHJH's suggestion about building a paper trail is an excellent idea, If you complain everytime you are threatened there will be a record if/when you ever do have to use force to defend yourself.

Yeah, it's kind of a blow to the ol' ego to walk away when some punk is calling you out but it's better than getting the S*** kicked out of you (or worse) because you couldn't just walk away. If you absolutely have to fight then preempt their attack and get away.

My advice is to let the other guy hit you first. Then, try not to hurt them too badly.

The best thing to do here is just to block it, dodge it, or just take the punch and laugh.

I've got to say that I totally disagree with these statements. If you have let the situation get to the point where punches are being thrown (if you haven't done the mature thing and walked away from the childish BS fight) then you have screwed up. At this point: defend yourself, put the other guy down, and get the hell out of there. How do you know he's only going to throw one punch and that he's going to "start regretting it as soon as they do it" ??? You don't! as far as taking the punch, what happens when you get knocked down and split your skull on the floor or the pavement, or his buddies decide to practice their tap-dancing skills on your face? That's not good self-defense. In fact, that's just plain stupid! Like I said earlier, there is a difference between a fight and a self-defense situation. As far as I'm concerned, if I find myself in a fight, it's because I've failed to handle the situation properly. I'm not being a "touchy-feely pacifist" here, if I feel that I'm really in danger, I'll put the guy in a body bag as fast as the next man. I'm just saying that whatever the case, you should never LET someone hit you. If they try, do whatever you have to do to keep them from succeeding whether it's blocking, shoving them back and walking away; or putting them down for keeps.

 

[artist89]

Well thanks but last year( not that I was trying to I was just showing that what some people think is impossiable is possiable) I broke boards with a front snap kick and an elbow strike. The year after no one would tease me or some wouldn't even look at me. Then one day somone bumped into me and ran off and I said o sorry. But I usally I can talk myself out of arguments and walk off before it escalates even more. but on the boad breaking I will NOT do that again becuase I don't won't people to fear me or be worried that I'll use TKD if they make me mad. So I always tell people try not to fight. :CTF:

 

[masherdong]

But I usally I can talk myself out of arguments and walk off before it escalates even more. but on the boad breaking I will NOT do that again becuase I don't won't people to fear me or be worried that I'll use TKD if they make me mad. So I always tell people try not to fight. :CTF:

I agree with that!

 

[loki09789]

With my school( HIgh School) they give suspensions in school so you stay in a room and do all your work all day or you stay at home for a certain amount of days and do your work all day. So my question is how do you defend yourself if they give suspenion to both people?

The basic premise behind suspension or administrative action for any and all parties involved in a HS fight is to send the message that NO violence is acceptable in a school. Period. As a microcosm of the larger culture, you 'should' be learning to read people in social settings, learn proper communication skills to avoid fighting...blah blah blah... So, when you are the 'defender' the point of 'punishment' is that you could have taken steps (in a perfect world) to avoid it. Of course there are cases where this is not ideal.

I say, and have told my son the same thing, if you are in danger of physical violence (Whether you 'had it coming' or 'saw it coming' or not) then defend yourself to the appropriate level and face the music after. Holding back or taking a beating so you can avoid detention is not wise or healthy given the extremes of violence that can happen even in the 'ego fights' of a HS the 'average' HS or even worse in a school with a bad track record.

 

[rutherford]

I'm not being a "touchy-feely pacifist" here, if I feel that I'm really in danger, I'll put the guy in a body bag as fast as the next man. I'm just saying that whatever the case, you should never LET someone hit you. If they try, do whatever you have to do to keep them from succeeding whether it's blocking, shoving them back and walking away; or putting them down for keeps.

And your talk of bodybags and putting folks down for keeps is something that totally disturbs me and I find wholly inappropriate for these type of situations.

I say, and have told my son the same thing, if you are in danger of physical violence (Whether you 'had it coming' or 'saw it coming' or not) then defend yourself to the appropriate level and face the music after. Holding back or taking a beating so you can avoid detention is not wise or healthy given the extremes of violence that can happen even in the 'ego fights' of a HS the 'average' HS or even worse in a school with a bad track record.

Taking a beating will usually only lead to more and stronger beatings later. Once you make yourself a target, it doesn't end until you do something about it.

And I want to be totally clear that this is not at all what I'm advocating.

But, I also want to make totally clear that sometimes a punch is just a punch and requires no follow-up. I think anybody who worked as a bouncer or fought a lot in school will agree with me.

 

[shesulsa]

Most of my daughter's friends know that she, at 100 lbs sopping wet with clothes on, can lift me on her back (I'm 150+) with no problem and that she trains. This has thwarted most possiblities and even many potential boyfriends.

However...

The rougher circuit has now made a game of her. They like to test her senses and try to sneak up behind her, get to her backpack, etc. It's a game with them and I'm not happy. Security ignores it, teachers don't care and admin provides canned answers. I realize she must learn to deal with these more real threats, so she, at eleven, has begun tactical training, since the crowd who has targeted her carries knives and fistpacks.

I have put the admin at her school on notice that she has been trained to defend herself, to know which situations she must defend herself against, and that I will morally and legally back her up in any situation she feels necessary to use self-defense.

Security follows me around all the time when I'm there. Stupid, cuz I'm not the one dealing meth to the 7th graders.

Frankly, I don't give a good gosh darn whether they suspend or expel her. If she's alive and whole at the end of the day, I'm happy.

 

[rutherford]

Most of my daughter's friends know that she, at 100 lbs sopping wet with clothes on, can lift me on her back (I'm 150+) with no problem and that she trains. This has thwarted most possiblities and even many potential boyfriends.

However...

The rougher circuit has now made a game of her.

Why are you sending your daughter back every day?

If you're not going to get her out of the situation, have you considered suggesting to her that she try and play back? This situation is about respect, and if she's going to get through it she may have to make friends with them.

It's a dark road. Believe me, I strongly suggest you move. I did, when I had kids, because I didn't want them to be in the situations I was in.

 

[Flatlander]

Why are you sending your daughter back every day?

If you're not going to get her out of the situation, have you considered suggesting to her that she try and play back? This situation is about respect, and if she's going to get through it she may have to make friends with them.

It's a dark road. Believe me, I strongly suggest you move. I did, when I had kids, because I didn't want them to be in the situations I was in.

Move, because eleven year olds are acting their age? You have got to be joking. Children learn by living, and by sorting out their own difficulties. If Shesulsa were to be the Mother Hen here and move around every time her daughter encounters a problem, her daughter will never move out of the house after highschool! :rofl: As any parent knows, this is the ultimate goal. :rofl:

 

[loki09789]

Taking a beating will usually only lead to more and stronger beatings later. Once you make yourself a target, it doesn't end until you do something about it.

And I want to be totally clear that this is not at all what I'm advocating.

But, I also want to make totally clear that sometimes a punch is just a punch and requires no follow-up. I think anybody who worked as a bouncer or fought a lot in school will agree with me.

In the short term, I agree with you, but - according to the 'anti-bullying' crowd as well as the soft stylists of martial arts - 'yielding' in a tactical sense (not necessarily taking a beating per se) or the old 'not giving them a fight to push against' can make it impossible for them to get what they want - a struggle/situation where the bully can 'prove himself superior.' If you don't give him that fight, he may find other targets.

If you do 'fight back' in a bad way (untimely, humiliation...) it may also lead to other fights because he/she has to get back on top psychologically - only now the game is on and the tactics will be meaner, sneakier and more brutal.

Based on your response, it does seem that you are differentiating between 'standing up for yourself' and 'defending yourself.' The first is a 'pride' fight, which will only extend the situation - and prove that you are not capable of finding alternatives to violence when faced with violence. The second is the attempt to stop someone from causing you harm only - which might (but not automatically) mean that you need to work on some 'street smarts' so that you can read the signs and diffuse the situation before it gets to that self defense phase.

NOTE: THe "you" I am using in this case is not "you" R-man, but the "you" as in generic person in these situations.