Secrecy in Kung Fu Today/ arrogance in MA's

[letsplaygames]

On watching some of the vids.. not to be critical

it's been my experience ... Most people who know what they are doing do not have guards that one can just walk up and manipulate.

Secondly, I've found through the hard way..... committing two hands to control an opponent's one hand is not optimum strategy. (high % of spitting chiclets from the floor)

Shǒu li yǒu dōngxī, yīdìng yào huílái "the hand must come back with something in it" as far as Han Quan fa is concerned, the concept is often misunderstood. If the hand comes back with control of the opponent's main angle of attack... it has something in it. (i.e. control of the angle) Not always will you be able to attach or seize... Or use the tactic of rolling energy i.e Gundong (fist gets blocked, you roll your elbow to strike. elbow get checked you use your shoulder. )

nuff of my ranting see ya all sometime in the future

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Agreed ... the Okinawan term "hikite" (to grab/pull back....) many styles of Karate use grabbing to full effect

It's different between:

1. block-grab-pull (defense approach),
2. punch-grab-pull (offense approach).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's different between:

1. block-grab-pull (defense approach),
2. punch-grab-pull (offense approach).

I think you have a mistaken notion of other arts. I’ve only met a few instructors (and no arts) that were that absolute.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think you have a mistaken notion of other arts. I’ve only met a few instructors (and no arts) that were that absolute.

Do you know any clip for that?

Do you know any non-CMA weapon that a spear has a hook on it?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Do you know any clip for that?

Do you know any non-CMA weapon that a spear has a hook on it?


View attachment 27714

Medieval France

Other Medieval spears

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Do you know any clip for that?

Do you know any non-CMA weapon that a spear has a hook on it?


View attachment 27714

The billhook was a common weapon on the medieval European battlefield.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Do you know any clip for that?

Do you know any non-CMA weapon that a spear has a hook on it?


View attachment 27714

I don’t know what a spear has to do with empty-hand arts.

As for clips, no. Even if I’ve seen a video with that principle, I don’t keep track of clips, so wouldn’t have a ready clip to share.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Do you have any clip to show that a punch is followed by a grab, and pull in any non-CMA system?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Also with hook

Japanese Yari, the Jumonji and Katakama

 

[BrendanF]

Kama-Yari

 

[Steve]

Okay. Now find a spear that has two hooks on it… and a bottle opener in the other side. That isn’t CMA.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Of course I'm responding to my opponent's move. My opponent raises his arm, I change my punch into ...

When your punch fail, you will have 2 options.

1. Pull your punch back and throw another punch.
2. Change your punch into something else.

IMO, CMA utilizes 2 more than non-CMA.

What is your experience with non-CMA?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Does this clip show the CMA principle, "手不空回 One should not pull his punching hand back empty"?

I don't see a punching hand in that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What is your experience with non-CMA?

3 months Goju-Ryu karate. My wife has 1st degree TKD black belt.

In my fighting club, I had:

- 1 black belt in TKD.
- 1 black belt in Hapkido.
- 1 black belt in Uechi-Ryu Karate.
- 1 professional MT fighter.

​

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't see a punching hand in that.

1. I throw a hook punch at my opponent.
2. My opponent avoids arm contact and hook punches back.
3. I change my hook punch into arm wrap.

During step 2, if my opponent blocks my hook punch, I can change my hook punch into a grab-pull. Step 3 will not happen.

This is the multiple levels training that I was talking about.

Level 1 training (offense skill) - You attack.
Level 2 training (defense and counter skill) - You attack, your opponent counters.
Level 3 training (counter to counter skill) - You attack, your opponent counters, you counters back.

Because your opponent's counter can be different (dodge, block, ...), If you use a hook punch as the tree root, you can grow a tree from it.

 

[_Simon_]

It seems to me Kung Fu schools and teachers still cloak themselves in secrecy.
Also, my experience with one School in the Poconos, Pa. Came off as cocky.
Why after many years involvement with martial arts, is this so?

I can't tell you. It's a secret.

Also, I am the only one who knows it.

 

[Oily Dragon]

\\

 

[Gerry Seymour]

3 months Goju-Ryu karate. My wife has 1st degree TKD black belt.

In my fighting club, I had:

- 1 black belt in TKD.
- 1 black belt in Hapkido.
- 1 black belt in Uechi-Ryu Karate.
- 1 professional MT fighter.

​

That’s a very limited range from which to make the sweeping statement that something doesn’t exist outside of CMA.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

1. I throw a hook punch at my opponent.
2. My opponent avoids arm contact and hook punches back.
3. I change my hook punch into arm wrap.

During step 2, if my opponent blocks my hook punch, I can change my hook punch into a grab-pull. Step 3 will not happen.

This is the multiple levels training that I was talking about.

Level 1 training (offense skill) - You attack.
Level 2 training (defense and counter skill) - You attack, your opponent counters.
Level 3 training (counter to counter skill) - You attack, your opponent counters, you counters back.

Because your opponent's counter can be different (dodge, block, ...), If you use a hook punch as the tree root, you can grow a tree from it.

View attachment 27716

That punch was never thrown at your partner. If he does nothing, it never connects. Or is there something really off in the camera angle?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Do you have any clip to show that a punch is followed by a grab, and pull in any non-CMA system?

Here are some more examples. I like that he shows both successful and unsuccessful attempts, so you can see where things can go wrong with this tactic.