Secrecy in Kung Fu Today/ arrogance in MA's

[dvcochran]

When I learned MDK TKD back in the 80's, the "Kung Fu" still hadn't been made a big deal and was almost if not exactly non-existent. I've seen what MDK TKD does with their interpretation of CMA. They're better off sticking to the Shotokan or Shorin-ryu forms.

Opinions and experiences vary. My MDK has been of a very smooth and flowing experience. Sound familiar?
I am also belted in Shotokan and can tell you there are many more similarities between MDK and Kung Fu versus Shotokan.
I feel you may be thinking of ITF TKD which is quite different from MDK.

 

[Oily Dragon]

My guess is zanshin would come from Chan (càn) since Japanese katakana & kanji are based on or direct Chinese Hanzi.

I don't think so. They just sound similar.

Zen (Chan) is the Buddhist tradition 禅, chán, meaning deep meditation.

Zan tradition 残 is probably more related to ceremonial beating, something that did become popular in Japanese Zen, because of its relation to 無心.

Don't mind the stick hitting you, basically. Ancient Chinese secrets, exposed!

 

[clfsean]

Opinions and experiences vary. My MDK has been of a very smooth and flowing experience. Sound familiar?
I am also belted in Shotokan and can tell you there are many more similarities between MDK and Kung Fu versus Shotokan.
I feel you may be thinking of ITF TKD which is quite different from MDK.

Nope ... MDK TKD from '81 to '93. My best friend during that time was also training in Shotokan and we would train at each other's schools on off days with little to no change in form or format, save names and my kicks were better.

 

[clfsean]

I don't think so. They just sound similar.

Zen (Chan) is the Buddhist tradition 禅, chán, meaning deep meditation.

Zan tradition 残 is probably more related to ceremonial beating, something that did become popular in Japanese Zen, because of its relation to 無心.

Don't mind the stick hitting you, basically. Ancient Chinese secrets, exposed!

View attachment 27697

Chan is the Cantonese pronunciation of Càn which is the character I provided.

Chan Buddism in Cantonese is pronounced as Sim for the Buddhist character 禪.

Zen is 禅 in Kanji and is the same as the Simplified character set.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Chan is the Cantonese pronunciation of Càn which is the character I provided.

Chan Buddism in Cantonese is pronounced as Sim for the Buddhist character 禪.

Zen is 禅 in Kanji and is the same as the Simplified character set.

Oh, the evil devil tongue again....

 

[Oily Dragon]

Chan is the Cantonese pronunciation of Càn which is the character I provided.

殘?

That's not the same "Chan" as the Mandarin term for the Buddhist School (Siu Lum Sim in Cantonese).

It's pronounced slightly differently, and the meaning is not the same. Like all things derived from Shaolin, it means different things in a more Japanese context.

 

[clfsean]

Oh, the evil devil tongue again....

You're. Damn. Skippy. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And just for the record, do you know how hard it is to go from Japanese to heavily Japanese accented Mandarin (whatever the Xian/Shaanxi dialect is) to glorious Cantonese to make notes and sense of things all in my addled brain??? And then try to pigeon with my teacher between Mandarin/Japanese/English? I should get medals for this ...

 

[clfsean]

殘?

That's not the same "Chan" as the Mandarin term for the Buddhist School (Siu Lum Sim in Cantonese).

It's pronounced slightly differently, and the meaning is not the same. Like all things derived from Shaolin, it means different things in a more Japanese context.

No it's a different character different meaning.

I'm pretty familiar with Southern CMA's coming from a Choy Li Fut / Lama Pai background and some relatively deep ties there.

Chan in this reference and character is not referring religious practices by name or intent. It's about a mindset used to approach wrecking your opponent.

 

[Oily Dragon]

No it's a different character different meaning.

I'm pretty familiar with Southern CMA's coming from a Choy Li Fut / Lama Pai background and some relatively deep ties there.

Chan in this reference and character is not referring religious practices by name or intent. It's about a mindset used to approach wrecking your opponent.

I can tell.

cán (殘) is not chán (禪). But it could be, in the right context. Like when a Rinzai master is standing over me.

Key point: never mind the stick.

 

[Oily Dragon]

My guess is zanshin would come from Chan (càn) since Japanese katakana & kanji are based on or direct Chinese Hanzi.

I have to ask, why you used the falling tone the first time. I think that mistake tripped me up a little.

 

[clfsean]

I have to ask, why you used the falling tone the first time. I think that mistake tripped me up a little.

That's how it's written as toned out in Mandarin. Càn ... I don't speak the slippery stuff very well. Ask Xue about that.

 

[Oily Dragon]

That's how it's written as toned out in Mandarin. Càn ... I don't speak the slippery stuff very well. Ask Xue about that.

It's a rising a, not a falling a. I don't even know what it means if you use a falling vowel, but if you do that in front of somebody Chinese...good luck!

I once used the phrase "hanzi" wrong in front of a Hokkien. I fixed myself pretty fast but that was a big step.

殘 - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

 

[clfsean]

Hokkien are special folks.

This might help ... from the Lama Pai wiki page written by at least one of my uncle who was adopted son of Chan Tai San and speaks Cantonese and Mandarin.

Chan (殘, Jyutping: caan4; Pinyin: cán) ... this is the ruthlessness character from earlier.

For Chan related to Buddhism (禪 Jyutping: Sim4; Pinyin Chán; Wade-Giles Ch'an2)


Ah I see my mistake in trying to type out that stuff ... wrong accent mark too. My bad on that!!

 

[Oily Dragon]

Hokkien are special folks.

This might help ... from the Lama Pai wiki page written by at least one of my uncle who was adopted son of Chan Tai San and speaks Cantonese and Mandarin.

Chan (殘, Jyutping: caan4; Pinyin: cán) ... this is the ruthlessness character from earlier.

For Chan related to Buddhism (禪 Jyutping: Sim4; Pinyin Chán; Wade-Giles Ch'an2)


Ah I see my mistake in trying to type out that stuff ... wrong accent mark too. My bad on that!!

 

[Xue Sheng]

You're. Damn. Skippy. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And just for the record, do you know how hard it is to go from Japanese to heavily Japanese accented Mandarin (whatever the Xian/Shaanxi dialect is) to glorious Cantonese to make notes and sense of things all in my addled brain??? And then try to pigeon with my teacher between Mandarin/Japanese/English? I should get medals for this ...

My brain hurts just thinking about that

But I do know how hard it is to go between Mandarin, Cantonese and English......I was, at one time, trying to learn Cantonese and Mandarin...at the same time... the only person who understood me was a friend of mine from Guangzhou who was an English teacher there before immigrating to the USA.... Also at that same time I was invited to a friend of mine's wedding. He was marrying a Japanese woman...and I was also looking at Japanese then too. I was at a table with 2 couples, both American men with Japanese wives... both men hated me before the wedding was over because I was trying my Japanese on them....both wives said to their husbands....."SEE...he doesn't even have a Japanese wife and his Japanese is better than yours"... I was hated by the Americans at the table

however at this point my Cantonese is non-existent and my Mandarin is so rusty it might as well be too....Japanese, I can remember 3 associated phrases......but I do still attempt to muddle through English

 

[Oily Dragon]

Most useful communication is non-verbal, anyway.

The Chan (rising a) tradition exemplifies that.

 

[dvcochran]

Nope ... MDK TKD from '81 to '93. My best friend during that time was also training in Shotokan and we would train at each other's schools on off days with little to no change in form or format, save names and my kicks were better.

Like I say opinions vary. I have workout at a LOT of schools. Most MDK schools are not as you describe.
Any chance one was an offshoot of the other in your situation. What was the MDK lineage?

 

[Steve]

Most useful communication is non-verbal, anyway.

Is it?

 

[Oily Dragon]

Is it?

Probably.

 

[dvcochran]

Probably.

View attachment 27699

Fully agree with this. It is not always to see but it is there.