second form

[matsu]

evening guys
i learnt the first basic section of the second for on tues..... holy cow my brain! so much new material to take into my being.
i know we are of different lineages and therefore we have fundaental differences within our forms but if anyone has some key points i/poss we can all learn from, whilst i practise....
please feel free to add any coments that i can think about and practise to help me with this?!!

thank you in advance
matsu

 

[yak sao]

Congrats on getting to the second form....
Regardless of lineage I would say regarding the CK form that in SNT you learn body unity and structure (among other things) In CK, you take that body unity and structure and learn to move it through space , to teach you to dissolve your opponent's attack and to add force to your own attack.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Matsu, did your sifu just show you the movements to the set or did he also show the what, why, wherefore, how, etc, to the hand positions? Once he shows you all of that, it's a little easier and makes sense. Just do as he tells you, take your time, don't leave anything out, and you'll be fine. You will have to go back with all your hand positions and relearn how to use them again. But it's not that difficult if you follow your sifu's advice.

Congrats and good luck.

 

[matsu]

thanks guys.
it was a breakdown of the first section and each movemnet and its application. it was a great session...felt like a beginner all over again lol.
just need some time to go over the movements bit by bit to get my aged brain and bod to absorb them now.
matsu

 

[mook jong man]

Learning to coordinate the arm movements with the stepping and the pivoting is very important in Chum Kiu.

Another major part of Chum Kiu theory is the application of multiple vectors of force at the same time.

For example If I were to try and latch your arm down with my Fook Sau you may resist me and try to hold it there , but if I were to pivot at exactly the same time as I begin to latch your arm down you will find it very difficult to resist me.

The reason being in the first example , if we take forward force out of it for a moment ( forward force is important because it causes him to push against my arm and commit himself ).
But forgetting that , in the first example he only has to deal with me pulling down which is one force.

In the second example when we add pivoting from Chum Kiu he not only is getting pulled down but also forward by the pivot which is two force vectors at once , making it hard for him to resist plus the pivot is powered by my whole body mass.

Or another way that Sigung explains it is this way , if you were to pick up a 100 kilo barbell and press it over your head you could probably do it no problem.

But if you were to try and pick up that same 100 kilo barbell and try and press it over head while I am pushing on your body from the side at the same time you would find it very difficult if not impossible to lift the weight.

But you wanted tips didn't you , not a shitload of theory.
I won't talk about the arm movements because as its already been said they vary widely from lineage to lineage.

Except to say when stepping make sure the arm movements are in synchronisation with the step so they both start together at the same time.

When stepping you want to be careful that you are not clawing yourself forward by using your front leg , just leave a slight bend in the front leg , put your weight on the back leg and initiate the movement forward from the waist.

To help you with this stepping so you do it properly you can get a partner to put his hand on your lower abdomen for resistance as you try to move forward , if you do it incorrect and you are trying to pull yourself forward with your front leg you won't be going anywhere.

With the pivoting keep your pelvis tilted forward so your upper and lower body stay locked in at the waist.

Finally when stepping make sure you keep the vertical up and down movement of your body to a bare minimum , practice your Chum Kiu stepping from side on in front of a large mirror , look at your eyes and make sure they scribe an imaginary horizontal line as you step past the mirror.

Should keep you busy for a while.

 

[l_uk3y]

The good ol Chum Kiu form. It may feel a bit odd to start off. Only tip I have. Stick with it. It will come to you.

We learnt forms by doing the first few techniques. Stop. Repeat several times. Then add on the next 2 or 3 moves. Repeat several times. etc. Until finally your instructor/Sifu will say. "That is the final technique in the form."

Good luck with it.

Luke

 

[matsu]

I THINK MY INTENTION OF THE THREAD WAS.... oops caps lock sorry...
was to get input fullstop.
theory is great mr mook. i appreciate the info you give to every thread-wether it is relevant to my sifus way or not. it gives me a foil to bounce my ideas and thought processes off of and that helps me find what i need to improve.
so any input on any thread might just make something click and thats why i,m here.
so thank you to all who have contributed to my progress over the past 18months.
you all keep me focused motivated and inspired.
matsu

 

[yak sao]

Some things that I do sometimes when practicing CK:

The parts that are repeated 3 times I will repeat multiple times, 50 to 100 times or more.
Also every time I get to a new stance position I will hold this for at least a minute. Also in our lineage we practice 100% on the rear leg while in the forward stance, so as a variation, I will sometimes raise my front leg and hold that for a minute at each stance change.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Some things that I do sometimes when practicing CK:

The parts that are repeated 3 times I will repeat multiple times, . . . . . . . . . Also every time I get to a new stance position I will hold this . . . . . . . . Also in our lineage we practice 100% on the rear leg while in the forward stance, so as a variation, I will sometimes raise my front leg and hold that . . . . . . at each stance change.

Ditto.

 

[WC_lun]

Don't let the body unity go out the window as you learn chum kui. Keep it in mind because it is still an integral part of Chum kui. Chum kui won't work if the body unity isn't there. See the whole picture and how everything works together. It isn't just the feet moving or the hands moving.

 

[cwk]

Don't let the body unity go out the window as you learn chum kui. Keep it in mind because it is still an integral part of Chum kui. Chum kui won't work if the body unity isn't there. See the whole picture and how everything works together. It isn't just the feet moving or the hands moving.

I second this. a good way to check if you have body unity is when you're switching from left to right in chor ma, the parts of your body should all stop moving at the same time. if you shift and then stop but your arms,shoulders or whatever still continue moving in that direction, even if just for a split second, you're out of sync slightly and need more practice.
hope this helps mate.

afterthought,
also what Mook said about not bobbing up and down when shifting. this is very important for root and power generation and should be practiced diligently.Try to sinking your hips slightly before you pivot and concentrate on keeping as much friction between the floor and your feet as you can. After a while this will become a natural thing but to start with you'll really have to concentrate.

 

[Domino]

I am learning CK also.

I would recommend practicing sections in chunks, going over a few moves repeatedly so that when you put them together they are more finely tuned and correct, that way you sort of know what feels good and what doesn't.

 

[qwksilver61]

Skill,speed, power all in that order,that is how it was passed to me.first work on structure,proper positioning.Try doing the form in segments,(stay relaxed)then link everything.What you want to achieve is fluidity,correct form,eventually continuity.Above all don't be too anxious,take the time to digest this form.Then repeat again, again, again, and again..............