Second Dan

H

Headhunter

Senior Master
so tonight I tested for and passed my second Dan in kenpo.

I've had a rough go of things with kenpo but since November I've been working with a 5th Dan who's very much open minded towards other styles and accepts that kenpo needs to adapt to stay relevant. He's constantly asked for opinions and asked what other systems do. Anyway I've been doing sessions with him and his black belts plus assisting a few classes here and there and last week he basically said to me "I reckon you should be a second Dan I'm going to promote you" but I refused it. I said I don't want a rank given to me. I said if he wants me to advance then I have to test for it I said I'd refuse to accept it without testing not as a sign of disrespect but simply i want to work for what I get not just get given it. So he agreed I could jump in on a black belt test for a couple his students tonight. So I did it and it was a 4 hour test went through pretty much everything answered questions and a small bit of sparring and the panel which had a 8th and a 10th Dan agreed I was good enough to pass. They gave me good advice on what to work on which I'll do.

It's nice to have but more than anything I just enjoyed blasting myself in the test more than the stripe on my belt but hey new ranks always nice can't lie
 
I don't know why, but in my head I thought you quit kenpo a tiny bit ago. Anyway, congratulations! From the tests I've been in or seen, not easy to just up and join a four hour test with a nights notice.
 
Maaaaaaate..... massive congrats, that's awesome. And sounds like you've found the place/instructor for you :)
 
Headhunter said:
so tonight I tested for and passed my second Dan in kenpo.

I've had a rough go of things with kenpo but since November I've been working with a 5th Dan who's very much open minded towards other styles and accepts that kenpo needs to adapt to stay relevant. He's constantly asked for opinions and asked what other systems do. Anyway I've been doing sessions with him and his black belts plus assisting a few classes here and there and last week he basically said to me "I reckon you should be a second Dan I'm going to promote you" but I refused it. I said I don't want a rank given to me. I said if he wants me to advance then I have to test for it I said I'd refuse to accept it without testing not as a sign of disrespect but simply i want to work for what I get not just get given it. So he agreed I could jump in on a black belt test for a couple his students tonight. So I did it and it was a 4 hour test went through pretty much everything answered questions and a small bit of sparring and the panel which had a 8th and a 10th Dan agreed I was good enough to pass. They gave me good advice on what to work on which I'll do.

It's nice to have but more than anything I just enjoyed blasting myself in the test more than the stripe on my belt but hey new ranks always nice can't lie
Click to expand...
That is how it is done. The test is for you. How you will look back on it means everything. Great to hear stories like this. Congratulations.
 
dvcochran said:
That is how it is done. The test is for you. How you will look back on it means everything. Great to hear stories like this. Congratulations.
Click to expand...
Yeah to me I don't see the point of being presented rank. It's like going to school and expecting to be given your exams just because you're there. If I don't earn it then all it is is a cheap piece of tape on my belt. I may not get any higher rank but if I do it will be because I test for it. I don't know anyone in kenpo who has tested for any higher than a 4th dan. After that it's all presented. If I do ever get that high then I will still either want to test or stay where I am. My ego is secure enough that I don't need to be given belts to prove myself. I personally believe the higher Dan ranks in kenpo at least are more of an ego thing than a skill thing. Just my opinion. If I get a rank I'm either doing a test on the mat for it and I'm not having it and I will happily refuse to accept a rank if it's presented to me because I in myself wouldn't feel like I've properly earned it. How can I expect students to push themselves hard in gradings when me as a instructor and high rank is just getting given my ranks. I wouldn't be able to look at students in the eye and tell them to work hard. I'd feel like a fake. Right or wrong that's just how I've always been
 
Headhunter said:
Yeah to me I don't see the point of being presented rank. It's like going to school and expecting to be given your exams just because you're there. If I don't earn it then all it is is a cheap piece of tape on my belt. I may not get any higher rank but if I do it will be because I test for it. I don't know anyone in kenpo who has tested for any higher than a 4th dan. After that it's all presented. If I do ever get that high then I will still either want to test or stay where I am. My ego is secure enough that I don't need to be given belts to prove myself. I personally believe the higher Dan ranks in kenpo at least are more of an ego thing than a skill thing. Just my opinion. If I get a rank I'm either doing a test on the mat for it and I'm not having it and I will happily refuse to accept a rank if it's presented to me because I in myself wouldn't feel like I've properly earned it. How can I expect students to push themselves hard in gradings when me as a instructor and high rank is just getting given my ranks. I wouldn't be able to look at students in the eye and tell them to work hard. I'd feel like a fake. Right or wrong that's just how I've always been
Click to expand...
In some cases, I think it may be a matter of a rank that was earned without testing. If someone's ability (and other traits) clearly exceed the standards for a given rank, then it's not an unearned rank. I think a lot of us prefer the satisfaction of passing the actual test, but (with some exceptions) the test is mostly about verifying the person meets those standards. There are some other things we can do with a test, but that's usually the primary purpose.

EDIT: Once again, clicked before I was done. For those ranks that have no standard testing/physical requirements, those are more about organizational development. Within the NGAA, for instance, 3rd dan is for folks who've developed a body of trained instructors, and 4th is usually for folks whose students have founded several schools - or (in both cases) something equivalent. I don't personally see much need for those.
 
Headhunter said:
Yeah to me I don't see the point of being presented rank. It's like going to school and expecting to be given your exams just because you're there. If I don't earn it then all it is is a cheap piece of tape on my belt. I may not get any higher rank but if I do it will be because I test for it. I don't know anyone in kenpo who has tested for any higher than a 4th dan. After that it's all presented. If I do ever get that high then I will still either want to test or stay where I am. My ego is secure enough that I don't need to be given belts to prove myself. I personally believe the higher Dan ranks in kenpo at least are more of an ego thing than a skill thing. Just my opinion. If I get a rank I'm either doing a test on the mat for it and I'm not having it and I will happily refuse to accept a rank if it's presented to me because I in myself wouldn't feel like I've properly earned it. How can I expect students to push themselves hard in gradings when me as a instructor and high rank is just getting given my ranks. I wouldn't be able to look at students in the eye and tell them to work hard. I'd feel like a fake. Right or wrong that's just how I've always been
Click to expand...
@gpseymour brings up some good points. To further it, where does the curriculum/syllabus end in Kenpo? If there’s no new material after 4th dan, what could you test someone on? So let’s say you’ve finished the syllabus at 4th dan, every rank above that would be an honorific type thing based on your contribution to the art - teaching, number of students who’ve earned a higher rank, number of students who went on to teach and have their own high ranking students; stuff like that.

Let’s say I’m a 4th dan and 10 of my students opened their own dojos, and a few of those guys taught students who opened their own dojos too. In a weird way I’m like a grandfather to those dojos. I don’t see any issues with promoting me based on that, so long as the quality of my students and their students was solid. If there’s no curriculum left for me, there’s not much you can test me on anymore. And by that time I’ve hopefully already proven my own skills in tests several times anyway. Sure people can be jackasses and promote everyone and their brother just to advance in rank themselves, but there’s always ways to cheat no matter how much you try to make it foolproof. Not everyone’s out to cheat the system.
 
JR 137 said:
@gpseymour brings up some good points. To further it, where does the curriculum/syllabus end in Kenpo? If there’s no new material after 4th dan, what could you test someone on? So let’s say you’ve finished the syllabus at 4th dan, every rank above that would be an honorific type thing based on your contribution to the art - teaching, number of students who’ve earned a higher rank, number of students who went on to teach and have their own high ranking students; stuff like that.

Let’s say I’m a 4th dan and 10 of my students opened their own dojos, and a few of those guys taught students who opened their own dojos too. In a weird way I’m like a grandfather to those dojos. I don’t see any issues with promoting me based on that, so long as the quality of my students and their students was solid. If there’s no curriculum left for me, there’s not much you can test me on anymore. And by that time I’ve hopefully already proven my own skills in tests several times anyway. Sure people can be jackasses and promote everyone and their brother just to advance in rank themselves, but there’s always ways to cheat no matter how much you try to make it foolproof. Not everyone’s out to cheat the system.
Click to expand...
I am making a guess that @Headhunter is younger than most of us. I like hearing his/her moxy in the description of lower Dan promotions. They should be rough in most cases. But, as you said, there is a bigger picture that will hopefully develop for headhunter. Somewhere in the journey for most folks it becomes more than just about their own personal development. It has everything to do with how/what they are taught. Some people never get past solely personal growth, I see it all the time in people who show up for class just to workout and never engage in anything else going on in the dojo/dojang. Most TMA schools expect a student to help clean the school sometimes for example.
 
JR 137 said:
@gpseymour brings up some good points. To further it, where does the curriculum/syllabus end in Kenpo? If there’s no new material after 4th dan, what could you test someone on? So let’s say you’ve finished the syllabus at 4th dan, every rank above that would be an honorific type thing based on your contribution to the art - teaching, number of students who’ve earned a higher rank, number of students who went on to teach and have their own high ranking students; stuff like that.

Let’s say I’m a 4th dan and 10 of my students opened their own dojos, and a few of those guys taught students who opened their own dojos too. In a weird way I’m like a grandfather to those dojos. I don’t see any issues with promoting me based on that, so long as the quality of my students and their students was solid. If there’s no curriculum left for me, there’s not much you can test me on anymore. And by that time I’ve hopefully already proven my own skills in tests several times anyway. Sure people can be jackasses and promote everyone and their brother just to advance in rank themselves, but there’s always ways to cheat no matter how much you try to make it foolproof. Not everyone’s out to cheat the system.
Click to expand...
I also assume some of that approach was designed around the idea of life-long involvement. You can't keep expecting a higher level of physical skill as people age. We can get technically more competent for a time after our bodies start to succumb to time, but that's limited. So how does an aging practitioner keep moving forward? By contributing to the art and association.
 
Headhunter said:
Yeah to me I don't see the point of being presented rank. It's like going to school and expecting to be given your exams just because you're there. If I don't earn it then all it is is a cheap piece of tape on my belt. I may not get any higher rank but if I do it will be because I test for it.
Click to expand...
Probably the majority of BJJ schools award ranks without a formal test. I feel pretty safe saying those ranks aren’t unearned. If I promote someone it’s because I see them prove what they can do day in and day out on the mats.

I have nothing against schools that hold formal test procedures on a given day. I’ve been through some of that in different arts and I can see how some people might appreciate that as a rite of passage. For myself as a teacher and a student, I prefer the approach where every day on the mat is a test.
 
Tony Dismukes said:
For myself as a teacher and a student, I prefer the approach where every day on the mat is a test.
Click to expand...
I feel more that way as time goes by. If I were convinced nobody I train will ever have their own students (and need some help figuring out how to rank people when they start) I'd probably do all ranking without formal tests. The tests are comfortable to me - it's what I've always done in any training that had ranks - but as an instructor I get to a point where I just want to say, "Listen, I know what you can do, and you know what you can do. This belt color matches that ability and knowledge."

Someday I might end up going that way. That might be the same day I decide to do away with colored belt ranks.
 
dvcochran said:
I am making a guess that @Headhunter is younger than most of us. I like hearing his/her moxy in the description of lower Dan promotions. They should be rough in most cases. But, as you said, there is a bigger picture that will hopefully develop for headhunter. Somewhere in the journey for most folks it becomes more than just about their own personal development. It has everything to do with how/what they are taught. Some people never get past solely personal growth, I see it all the time in people who show up for class just to workout and never engage in anything else going on in the dojo/dojang. Most TMA schools expect a student to help clean the school sometimes for example.
Click to expand...
I believe that @Headhunter is actually an older gentleman.
 
Well done man

There are many who would have been tempted and who maybe thought they deserved the promotion without testing.
 
Headhunter said:
Honestly have no idea why people would assume I'm younger just because I want to push myself and not get given anything. I've been that way since I first started and I'll be the same until the day I die
Click to expand...
I was not implying anything negative. I commend the attitude as I said earlier. I get it. People are all driven differently and sometimes it is hard to see. I love hearing a person have
Headhunter said:
Honestly have no idea why people would assume I'm younger just because I want to push myself and not get given anything. I've been that way since I first started and I'll be the same until the day I die
Click to expand...
I meant it as a compliment. I love hearing your passion and abandon. My old fart horn may have been going off too loudly. I competed at a very high level in my early MA career and that element of what I do has mellowed. But yes, I feel that same drive which is what I think you are referring to. Push the envelope as long as you can. MA needs this.
 
dvcochran said:
I was not implying anything negative. I commend the attitude as I said earlier. I get it. People are all driven differently and sometimes it is hard to see. I love hearing a person have

I meant it as a compliment. I love hearing your passion and abandon. My old fart horn may have been going off too loudly. I competed at a very high level in my early MA career and that element of what I do has mellowed. But yes, I feel that same drive which is what I think you are referring to. Push the envelope as long as you can. MA needs this.
Click to expand...
Nah it's fine I didn't take it as an insult just curious why others thought that
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

For those who quit and came back. Every think what might have been?

Previous Thread

Ringside elite freestanding bag exclusively for kicking?

Next Thread

Similar threads

H
Update on kenpo drama
Replies
4
Views
1K
Saheim
Saheim
H
Jeff Speakman
Replies
7
Views
2K
Flying Crane
Flying Crane
Rough Rider
Cost of testing
2 3
Replies
54
Views
7K
Dirty Dog
Dirty Dog
A
Understanding the ethics of ranking up
4 5 6
Replies
103
Views
11K
Gerry Seymour
Gerry Seymour
L
Paper Hanging
Replies
6
Views
2K
lklawson
lklawson

Latest Discussions

Back
Top