Sai usage? Just wondering...

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by theneuhauser


okinawa is part of japan, right? karate was born there, and japanese karate is different from okinawan, right? i see the distinction. why cant i call all of these arts japanese? why the distinction there? they are japanese aren't they?

Culturally as well as genetically Okinawans are different than Japanese. They are in fact a different race, in fact some Okinawans I have met are not really too happy to be called "Japanese". .
You wouldn't call the Hula a traditional American dance or even a Native American dances a traditional American dances.
Those things were a part of those cultures before they were "American". Same with Okinawan karate.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador



But are there are any known incidents of the Okinawan arts having an effect on the Chinese arts? Chinese ambassadors had come to the Ryukyus for years--surely someone took something back with him that he had found useful or interesting? A single technique, a weapon, a way of practice...anything?

I have always wondered that myself.
There are 100's things that went from China to Okinawa but I have yet to hear of or see anything going the other way.

 

[theneuhauser]

Culturally as well as genetically Okinawans are different than Japanese. They are in fact a different race, in fact some Okinawans I have met are not really too happy to be called "Japanese". .

so, was okinawa actually its own nation at one time?

 

[RyuShiKan]

Yes

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by theneuhauser

so, was okinawa actually its own nation at one time?

See the Karate forum for more on these issues. many have been discussed there already.

Yes, it was it's own nation until the late 1800s, though it had been under strong Japanese "influence" before that, and earlier on had been largely beholden to the Chinese. The Ryukyus has a long history of being a middleman between China and Japan!

 

[Matt Stone]

I saw a book written by Donn Draeger a long time ago, and there was a picture of a weapon called a tjabang that looked like a sai, with the exception of a lack of sharpened tines... it was more of a blunt pointed instrument.

Just FYI...

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador





Yes, it was it's own nation until the late 1800s, though it had been under strong Japanese "influence" before that, and earlier on had been largely beholden to the Chinese. The Ryukyus has a long history of being a middleman between China and Japan!

Okinawa was "officially" made a prefecture around 1890 along with Hokkaido. However, Okinawa still paid it's tributary dues to China until the 1920's.......

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I have heard several different concepts on what the sai was used for. One was used for sailing ships to and a way to tie ropes together. Wasn't sure what they were talking about. Second was it was a farming tool to help put a hole in the ground so they can put rice seeds into the hole. I believe the handle is too short for this and would give the user a very bad back ache if used like that. Also heard the sai are used in pairs or sometimes 3 at once. With one tucked into back of the pants.
Bob

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

I have heard several different concepts on what the sai was used for. One was used for sailing ships to and a way to tie ropes together. Wasn't sure what they were talking about. Second was it was a farming tool to help put a hole in the ground so they can put rice seeds into the hole.

Absolutely not used for those two things.

It was used as a Police weapon.............that is it, nothing else.

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

Also heard the sai are used in pairs or sometimes 3 at once. With one tucked into back of the pants.
Bob

This might be true. Matayoshi used to use three sai in such a way while doing kata but I can't say if it was used that way in real life or not.

 

[arnisador]

I've heard the three sai story before also but have never heard of a kata being done with three sai. Where is the third one kept? In the belt? Is one dropped at some point or put back in the belt?

 

[Kempojujutsu]

The one tape I have they wear it in the belt behind their back. In this kata they throw one at the foot. Then pull the other sai out.
Bob

 

[Kempojujutsu]

RSK, You said it was for police. Was it made out of forge metal or did they have types. Such as wooden sai. Also were only the Police allowed to carry them in Okinawa.
Bob:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador

I've heard the three sai story before also but have never heard of a kata being done with three sai. Where is the third one kept? In the belt? Is one dropped at some point or put back in the belt?

Actually the guy juggles all 3 of them while blind folded.

No really, one is kept in the belt in the back while the other 2 are used. At some point in the kata one is thrown into presumably the guys foot and then the 3rd Sai is pulled from the belt.
I have seen the late Matayoshi Shinpo do this kata although it is considered "real" Kobudo I thought it looked a little too "made up". One reason is it was not common to carry 2 Sai let alone 3. Most "Policeman" of that era carried one Sai and sometimes two. The second reason is it would be really, really difficult to stick a Sai in someone's foot because they aren't that sharp and it is easy to move your foot away from something being thrown at you.