Ryu

[chufeng]

RSK,

I know that I read the generational requirement in a book that detailed Japanese systems...however, I can't tell you which book it was...I don't keep a bibilography with footnotes on every book I read...

Perhaps you could ask around and see what the current thought is on that term...it may have historically developed with generational requirements but currently is no longer used that way...

I'll keep looking for the book that referenced it...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by chufeng
RSK,

I know that I read the generational requirement in a book that detailed Japanese systems...however, I can't tell you which book it was...I don't keep a bibilography with footnotes on every book I read...

Perhaps you could ask around and see what the current thought is on that term...it may have historically developed with generational requirements but currently is no longer used that way...

I'll keep looking for the book that referenced it...

:asian:
chufeng

Please do. I would be interested in knowing who wrote it.
I don't disagree or agree with it .........I simply don't know anything about it.

 

[Disco]

EVERYBODY GONNA DO TIME TA-DAY...........

We talked to judge Judy and Wopner. Asked them about this crime of the century.

THIS IS THEIR RULING:

MyaRyu, you are hereby demoted entirely from PangRacoon,,,,,,,,

RhyShiKan, you are held in contempt of court for BEATING A DEAD HORSE. Additional action may be pending from the ASPCA.

This case is CLOSED!

"Bailiff, call the next case"..........

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by akja
I find it quite funny that SOME people out care so much about the non-essentials. I did this, no you didn't, I know I'm right, damn and they wonder why "the martial arts are held in such low esteem by the general public world wide." Maybe they should look in the mirror.

I can say this about the two gentlemen that won't let it go. Sorry boys, but my Sensei is YOUR SENIOR in every respect and he sees me worthy of my 5th Dan.

Ummmm, one of you is a 4th Dan and the other is 6th Dan. Does that mean I can fight as good as you? NO! Does it mean that I deserve as much as respect as you? NO! But I am very much a real martial combatant with or without your respect.

It does mean that someone who knows me (and in my opinion, knows better than you) recognizes me, my martial art abilities and respects me enough back me up 100%.

And you Mr. 6th Dan your trying to police the police. Who made you the authority of a system you have nothing to do with?

MRJ, is a cop and I was on the otherside incarcerated for several years and I have more respect for him than I do for those who worry about the non-essentials. This caca sounds like kids play.

Don't even waste your time with me, I've fought the fight, the cage fight that dosen't let you go home, you have to wake up the next day and deal with what you did yesterday. Real fights, not the tippy tap that most think is practice.

NUMBER ONE, No one country has a monopoly on martial arts or rank.

NUMBER TWO, Once an art is taught, the student has NO OBLIGATION to teach as he was taught.

NUMBER THREE, Even if everybody followed the same standards, you TWO still would not be qualified to be the martial cops.

I've tried to be rational and I just don't give a mad F anymore, you don't deserve any respect except from your followers. Respect is earned and the dribble I've read in about three threads (that keeps getting locked, because of your dribble) does not command respect.

You can earn respect by acting right. I've put myself in check, time and time again, here and in my daily life. You need to check yourself. Its easy enough to ignore someone but you choose to keep digging a hole for yourself. Let it go.

I'm not *** kissin any of you. Don't like me? Then F U. Thats me.

If you want to be right, then lets be right together. We are all one. We we're born that way and we will leave this earth that way. If we can't live this way, then it will be someone else thats casts the first stone. And those who do will have to live with the respect that they've earned.

Sounds like a desperate plead for attention there, my friend.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Sounds like a desperate plead for attention there, my friend.

Just the truth, my friend!

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Disco
EVERYBODY GONNA DO TIME TA-DAY...........

We talked to judge Judy and Wopner. Asked them about this crime of the century.

THIS IS THEIR RULING:

MyaRyu, you are hereby demoted entirely from PangRacoon,,,,,,,,

RhyShiKan, you are held in contempt of court for BEATING A DEAD HORSE. Additional action may be pending from the ASPCA.

This case is CLOSED!

"Bailiff, call the next case"..........

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I am curious as to why you have been laboriously trying every way just to get the guy off the hook from addressing the 8th dan Pangainoon claim.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by akja
Just the truth, my friend!

I see your original points just fine. But I don't believe that they would excuse people from making claims of titles and ranks that are "pie in the sky". I am not alone in saying that when a person makes bogus claim of credential then he is a liar. A liar is undeserving of your respect. Liars making bogus claims are cancel in the MA community. Of course you don't just go around accusing people of being liars. Hence the long winded process of inquiry and all the chances in the world for the person to clarify and to educate us on the basis of his/her claims. I do not see anything wrong in such a process. As a member of the society, you have the obligation to ask questions to seek the truth.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by KennethKu
I see your original points just fine. But I don't believe that they would excuse people from making claims of titles and ranks that are "pie in the sky". I am not alone in saying that when a person makes bogus claim of credential then he is a liar. A liar is undeserving of your respect. Liars making bogus claims are cancel in the MA community. Of course you don't just go around accusing people of being liars. Hence the long winded process of inquiry and all the chances in the world for the person to clarify and to educate us on the basis of his/her claims. I do not see anything wrong in such a process. As a member of the society, you have the obligation to ask questions to seek the truth.

Martial arts is a journey of seeking the truth but my self knowledge does not require knowledge that does not effect me, it is meaningless. Many people all around us fall within the same guidelines that are being set here.

Regulation does not work. The only people that are in favor of martial art regulation are the ones that are going to make money on it, period. The smart ones don’t want it.

So why is it going on here on a smaller level? I think its petty for anybody by themselves or as a group to do the policeing. These same individuals will tell you that the training means more to them than the rank but they are worried about someone else’s rank and who issued it. It is not good character.

Official recognition will have no effect to me except a positive one because it will allow me to make a lot of money just like the proponents of martial art regulation. My 5th Dan is registerd under my Hanshi who has 49 years in the martial arts and heads up a large international organization. He would become more rich and in turn I would receive the the riches from the ripple down effect. Go ahead and vote for it! If the bill ever passes you will set my financial future!

But that’s not what I’m looking for, I’M JUST MAKING MY POINT!!!:asian:

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by Mike Clarke
So there you are Grasshopper!
I've been wondering where you were? Away getting some more gradings no doubt?
Anyway, enough of this childish stuff or I'll have your students calling me names again.
You've changed the name of the things you teach a couple of times so I guess that makes you something of an expert?

If you want to be taken seriously by those on this forum who have been in the martial arts for more than a few years, then I suggest you come clean with your claims of high rank in one of the fighting systems you said you have trained in.

If you can't find it in you to do that, you have to expect more post like this one from those who see in you the very reason the martial arts are held in such low esteem by the general public world wide.

Before you carry on offering your pearls of wisdom, perhaps you could be mature enough to admit that at least some of the qualifications you stated you had some time ago, came from sources you are no longer happy to admit to?
Crap about not wanting to offend your past teachers by naming them is a smoke screen to hide what I suspect is some sense of embaressment by you?

As one Budo-ka and member of this forum, I'm asking' "Who did you recieve your 8th Dan grade from in Pangeinoon-ryu?"
You can write me on PM if you like.

I'll await your reply.
Mike.

Mike,

MRJ is not going to reveal that info to you, why cant you just except that and move on!

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by yilisifu
If someone alleges to hold a certain rank in a system that is headquartered in Okinawa or Japan or whatever, then that rank should be registered with same. If I say that I'm a 6th dan in Kyokushin, then the HQ of Kyokushin in Tokyo should have that grade registered.

On the other hand, if I allege that I'm ranked in a system that is not headquartered in the Orient, that's equally fine - but the HQ, wherever it is, should have it on record.

Not all system are headquartered in the Orient. That's fine.

But.....

Pangainoon-ryu IS headquartered in Okinawa. ALL ranks in that system should be registered with them.

It's that simple.

If this gentleman claims to be an 8th dan in Pangainoon, but their HQ has no record of it, then the claim is false. Perhaps his teacher was not truthful with him. Perhaps he is not being truthful with himself or with us. Whatever. If it is the former, then I suggest they stop calling what they teach "Pangainoon" and pick some other name. That one's taken.

I do think it's important that such questions be resolved. Unwillingness to resolve these kinds of issues has led to the general chaos we see in martial arts in the world today with literally hundreds and hundreds of homemade styles and people claiming to be extremely high-ranked practicioners of well-established systems.

Yilisifu,

You say that all ranks should be registered with there root countries ect., but you know as well as I do that all are not. That doesnt mean that there not legit, it just means that they chose not to ascoiate with that organization? Maybe they had past differences or somthing, but for whatever reason they have no affiliation with Japanese org.
I'm not saying that this is true because I honestly dont know but I'm pretty sure that this could be possible!

 

[Disco]

I tried asking serious questions and they were either answered in part or just ignored. I asked the same question 3 times with no direct answer. I personally am tired of the same old same old. Thread gets closed, new one starts and were back to the same old crap. People get suspended/banned, short time later, round 2,3, or 4 is up and running. I have given both sides respect and tried to attempt to give a different viewpoint to the proceedings (Foolish me). This item was/is at a total impass. It's time to bury the sucka and move on.

:soapbox:

 

[KennethKu]

None of my bee wax, but for some one who is "tired of the same old same old", you seem to follow the topic enthusiastically every corner it ends up.

 

[Master of Blades]

Which is what I've been saying all along, well said Disco :asian:

 

[KennethKu]

Either people do not grasp the gravity of the issue or they purposefully ignored it for whatever reason.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Either people do not grasp the gravity of the issue or they purposefully ignored it for whatever reason.

Not at all, but I've spoken to MRJ and either he is telling the truth or he should start writing novels cuz he has a better story then Stephen King could write!

 

[Disco]

I don't follow it, it just seems to follow us. If I'm in a thread and posting to other issues and this comes roaring in again, how am I following it? But I'll tell you what. I'll make this real easy for all concerned, including staff. Since there seems to be two growing camps of participants, which to me means that this thing is/will not go away. Then I'll just go away. Bye!!!

People in charge, close me out!!!!!!!

 

[Master of Blades]

Okay okay its gotten out of hand AGAIN!

Disco, when people start leaving things start getting stupid....Stay, all he was saying was dont complain when you can just stay away from these threads.

RSK and Party, Some people are on your side, some people aint, Your NEVER gonna get everyone to believe you....so why bother continueing.....You have accomplished your goal by proving to yourself and finding out for sure this guy is a "Fraud" so is there any need for continueing any of this?

MRJ and Party, Same to you guys, just leave it, no point argueing anymore, nothing else to be said.

Cant we just agree to disagree and all be happy?

 

[A.R.K.]

No student or instructor needs to be a member of any organization in any country. No school needs to be a member of any organization in any country.

If I'm in error on this point, simply post the page of the rule book that states we MUST belong.

And Ken, I think perhaps you my friend amoung many are missing the big picture. A belt of any color has absolutely no meaning except to the person wearing it, and perhaps the school or schools of the same system. It basically means the student has attained a certain level and has time in grade. It does not mean the student can fight...which is the sole root purpose of the martial arts. Having practical experience in the real world does however mean quite a bit. If you and a few others want to dwell on my credentials, by all means invest your time, effort and energy into it.

If Robert had opened a respectful and courteous diologe with me months ago I would have been happy to discuss my background in detail with him...as I have already with many here that have gone this route. Many try to defend him with 'Well he's just straight-forward and strong-willed'. No, he is tactless and rude and thinks he can boss people around. And he has a little posse that he acts out in front of which only esculates his behavior.

Regardless, you don't have a leg to stand on in my humble opinion. No one has to belong to any organization for recognition. No one has to explain themselves to anyone who is obsessed with tearing them down. I bear him and you and the others no ill will. Nor am I angry in the least. And truth be told I have much to thank all of you for...but more on that later. I'm going to go eat dinner now. Think of me in any way that you desire and peace and long life to you and to all.

 

[A.R.K.]

Joseph,

Its ok partner The meaner they get, the nicer I'll be Disco will be back, he's like a bad penny lol. He's also a good friend.

I still want to see that page in the rule book that dictates we must belong to a particular organization. I'm sure that RSK or one of the Yili practioners are at this very moment scanning it into the computer so that they can post it here for all of us to enjoy and learn from. Thank you in advance :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Guys....enough.

You're wearing a circle in the floor.

I think most folks here are tired of the fact than any thread involving the 2 groups seems to decend to nothing more than "Papers Please!". I often picture Sgt. Schultz in a gi asking for em.....

Drop it. We understand the concerns of both sides, but the non-stop bickering is disrupting this forum (and causing me personally to run out of advil)

I dont believe that either side will be satisfied regardless of any sollutions.

Here is where things stand, stalemate.

I can respect Robert and his associates desire to out frauds, and help maintain the integrety of the arts. I wholeheartedly aprove of the concept. The problem here is, you are not going to get the information you want. You have presented all of your information. It is stored here for anyone to read. MRJ can answer you or not. He chooses not to do so publically. He has privately given me some information, which did check out as far as I could dig before my system melted down last week. I am satisfied that he's not a bad person. The goal of getting information out to the public is a good one. The goal of hounding and harrassing someone, or running them off this board due to having a different opinion is not. I apreciate Roberts contacts and ability to check with organizations in Japan and China. I couldn't ask for the john in those languages, much less ask more serious stuff. But, what good does calling Kyoto do if the organization is out of Tel Aviv? None. Why would I ask the IKKO if the persons with the IKKP? I'm not downplaying things, just asking.

Let the discussions that have happened make your statements for you. It is time to move on.

The name of his organization means something to him. He is not the first to mix and match words to name a style or system..he wont be the last.

As to the credibility of his certs...I havent seen them. Given how easy it would be for me to knock out a fake cert, I doubt highly the credibility of any piece of paper, regardless of who presents it. I believe skill on the mat and skill on the street count more than parchment and ink.




Guys, move on.


Else I have to unleash the dreaded "Kämpfen wie tora kaze" on you. (and yes, I probably screwed up the grammer)

:asian: