Revisionist History...Again!

[Dan Anderson]

Hi All,

Check out this blog.
http://visayanfilipinomartialarts.blogspot.com/

This sort of crap really ticks me off, especially 7 years down the road. Here was my reply in another forum.

I went to the Visayan Filipino martial Arts blog to check out the story. Interesting. I'll answer a couple of Max Maun's questions. (whole story at this link) http://visayanfilipinomartialarts.blogspot.com/

"If Modern Arnis was established in 1968 as stated, how could the Lisondra brothers earn rank in that system on December 11, 1964 or 4 years before it was founded?"

Remy Presas started Modern Arnis in 1957. He may have incorporated it in 1964 but he formulated it in 1957.

"Mr. Lisondra also stated that he went back to Bacolod in 1971 while GM Presas stayed in Manila . Why did GM Presas stay in Manila ? Who were the known people associated with GM Presas during that time period?"

It is well known that he was working with Roland Dantes in the film industry at that time. I believe Vicente Sanchez was working in the film industry then as well and worked with Prof. Presas.

"On page 51, Mr. Lisondra admitted that their group was practicing a system of techniques called Corridas that was later renamed to Tapi-Tapi. What then is corridas? How did it become to be called Tapi-Tapi by GM Presas? Who were the original practitioners of Corridas? And most importantly, who were the real originators of Modern Arnis as a system? Who prepared the original manuscript of the book Modern Arnis? What happened to the original manuscript?"

Corridas is principle part of balintawak eskrima training. Remy trained in balintawak eskrima under Rodolfo Moncal, Timoteo Maranga and Ancion Bacon. From my limited training in balintawak and extensive training in Modern Arnis, Tapi-Tapi appears to be a derivative of the original corridas.

"Let me start in the mid 1960s when I was still an elementary pupil at UNO-R in Bacolod City . Prof. Remegio “Remy” Amador Presas of Hinigaran was employed as college PE instructor at the university, teaching Karate and Judo as PE elective subjects during that time. During that period, Prof. Presas was popular and known as a Karate and Judo man, rather than a stickfighting instructor."

It is also well known that arts like karate and judo were more popular than the indigenous arts at that time. It is not surprising that he was known as a karate/judo man when that was what he was employed as.

"There were also other things revealed to me by my uncles which I personally believe should not go public and must be kept and buried in order not to destroy the legacy of today’s Modern Arnis. It is best kept in secret to preserve the good memories of Col. Pedro “Pete” P. Doromal Jr., Capt. Nelson P. Doromal, and Prof. Remegio “Remy” A. Presas. These three people are no longer with us today."

In other words, to commemorate the 7th anniversary of Prof. Presas' passing away, it's now time to bring up "history" that can't/won't be verified so that the good memories of these men may be preserved. You must be well schooled in American politics to come up with a line like that.

The duel, the borrowing of the manuscript which was never returned (if so, call it for what it was - theft) may all be true but why wait 7 years if you already had this data?

"There are still people alive today who know the story and could vouch for its authenticity. Mr. Julio Euraba and Col. Atty. GM Marcelo “Pope” C. Jalandoon, Ph.D., of Talisay City, Negros Occidental are just two of them. I would rather not mention the names of the other people to respect their privacy. However, I could easily refer anyone who wishes to check with them in private."

Now that you have come public, why not have them do so as well?

"Let me again say that I am not putting anyone into the bad light. I am merely correcting an error which has continued for decades. Let history be right and truth prevail about modern arnis. Mabuhay ang lahing Filipino! Mabuhay ang Arnis!"

And let me say, "Gook Luck, Uncle Buck." This not merely 'correcting an error.' Whether true or not, this is ONE MAN (you) who is talking smack about one of the two men (the other being Guro Dan Inosanto) who have successfully done more than any other to bring the Filipino Martial Arts into the world eye.

Unless you can back up your data with creditable sources who are willing to come out and corroberate your story, this is sour grapes - pure and simple.

IF you can corroberate this story, I will be the first to publicly apologize to you for my antagonistic remarks.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Senior Master Remy Presas Modern Arnis

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Wow that is a very interesting read.

 

[tshadowchaser]

well said Mr. Anderson

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hi All,

Check out this blog.
http://visayanfilipinomartialarts.blogspot.com/

This sort of crap really ticks me off, especially 7 years down the road. Here was my reply in another forum.

I went to the Visayan Filipino martial Arts blog to check out the story. Interesting. I'll answer a couple of Max Maun's questions. (whole story at this link) http://visayanfilipinomartialarts.blogspot.com/

"If Modern Arnis was established in 1968 as stated, how could the Lisondra brothers earn rank in that system on December 11, 1964 or 4 years before it was founded?"

Remy Presas started Modern Arnis in 1957. He may have incorporated it in 1964 but he formulated it in 1957.

"Mr. Lisondra also stated that he went back to Bacolod in 1971 while GM Presas stayed in Manila . Why did GM Presas stay in Manila ? Who were the known people associated with GM Presas during that time period?"

It is well known that he was working with Roland Dantes in the film industry at that time. I believe Vicente Sanchez was working in the film industry then as well and worked with Prof. Presas.

"On page 51, Mr. Lisondra admitted that their group was practicing a system of techniques called Corridas that was later renamed to Tapi-Tapi. What then is corridas? How did it become to be called Tapi-Tapi by GM Presas? Who were the original practitioners of Corridas? And most importantly, who were the real originators of Modern Arnis as a system? Who prepared the original manuscript of the book Modern Arnis? What happened to the original manuscript?"

Corridas is principle part of balintawak eskrima training. Remy trained in balintawak eskrima under Rodolfo Moncal, Timoteo Maranga and Ancion Bacon. From my limited training in balintawak and extensive training in Modern Arnis, Tapi-Tapi appears to be a derivative of the original corridas.

"Let me start in the mid 1960s when I was still an elementary pupil at UNO-R in Bacolod City . Prof. Remegio “Remy” Amador Presas of Hinigaran was employed as college PE instructor at the university, teaching Karate and Judo as PE elective subjects during that time. During that period, Prof. Presas was popular and known as a Karate and Judo man, rather than a stickfighting instructor."

It is also well known that arts like karate and judo were more popular than the indigenous arts at that time. It is not surprising that he was known as a karate/judo man when that was what he was employed as.

"There were also other things revealed to me by my uncles which I personally believe should not go public and must be kept and buried in order not to destroy the legacy of today’s Modern Arnis. It is best kept in secret to preserve the good memories of Col. Pedro “Pete” P. Doromal Jr., Capt. Nelson P. Doromal, and Prof. Remegio “Remy” A. Presas. These three people are no longer with us today."

In other words, to commemorate the 7th anniversary of Prof. Presas' passing away, it's now time to bring up "history" that can't/won't be verified so that the good memories of these men may be preserved. You must be well schooled in American politics to come up with a line like that.

The duel, the borrowing of the manuscript which was never returned (if so, call it for what it was - theft) may all be true but why wait 7 years if you already had this data?

"There are still people alive today who know the story and could vouch for its authenticity. Mr. Julio Euraba and Col. Atty. GM Marcelo “Pope” C. Jalandoon, Ph.D., of Talisay City, Negros Occidental are just two of them. I would rather not mention the names of the other people to respect their privacy. However, I could easily refer anyone who wishes to check with them in private."

Now that you have come public, why not have them do so as well?

"Let me again say that I am not putting anyone into the bad light. I am merely correcting an error which has continued for decades. Let history be right and truth prevail about modern arnis. Mabuhay ang lahing Filipino! Mabuhay ang Arnis!"

And let me say, "Gook Luck, Uncle Buck." This not merely 'correcting an error.' Whether true or not, this is ONE MAN (you) who is talking smack about one of the two men (the other being Guro Dan Inosanto) who have successfully done more than any other to bring the Filipino Martial Arts into the world eye.

Unless you can back up your data with creditable sources who are willing to come out and corroberate your story, this is sour grapes - pure and simple.

IF you can corroberate this story, I will be the first to publicly apologize to you for my antagonistic remarks.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Senior Master Remy Presas Modern Arnis

Please excuse my comments but it is how I feel at the moment and also when I read this the other night from E-D.


I believe this is another Filipino and Filipino Family that believes that since they are Filipino from the Phillipines they can say what they want and it will be true. The point is that people like this are trying to get a piece of the pie. And instead of just coming out and showing what they got, and basing it upon merit they want to try to say they are the only ones.

There have been people who are upset about non filipinos claiming leadership. There have been people upset about those from the PI coming out of the wood work with claims of rank and titles. There were some long time students of Modern Arnis in the Phillipines who should be leading thei own orgs in the PI and can travel and spread the art. The same is true of those in North America and Europe. If you claim leadership or you find yourself with people following you, then show your stuff and let people decided.

No one will please everyone all time.


If they have proof that can be verified, I would be interested in reading it.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think Rich hit's it on the head. In my opinion you never really get anywhere good by tearing other people down. It is always best to put your best foot forward and do your thing. If it is good then people will take notice. However, to tear other people down and especially going after someone who cannot defend themselves. Well that is just distasteful.

 

[arnisador]

In my opinion you never really get anywhere good by tearing other people down. It is always best to put your best foot forward and do your thing.

That sums it up for me.

 

[stickarts]

I think Rich hit's it on the head. In my opinion you never really get anywhere good by tearing other people down. It is always best to put your best foot forward and do your thing. If it is good then people will take notice. However, to tear other people down and especially going after someone who cannot defend themselves. Well that is just distasteful.

Well said.

 

[Morgan]

Hi All,

Check out this blog.
http://visayanfilipinomartialarts.blogspot.com/

This sort of crap really ticks me off, especially 7 years down the road. Here was my reply in another forum.

I went to the Visayan Filipino martial Arts blog to check out the story. Interesting. I'll answer a couple of Max Maun's questions. (whole story at this link) http://visayanfilipinomartialarts.blogspot.com/

"If Modern Arnis was established in 1968 as stated, how could the Lisondra brothers earn rank in that system on December 11, 1964 or 4 years before it was founded?"

Remy Presas started Modern Arnis in 1957. He may have incorporated it in 1964 but he formulated it in 1957.

"Mr. Lisondra also stated that he went back to Bacolod in 1971 while GM Presas stayed in Manila . Why did GM Presas stay in Manila ? Who were the known people associated with GM Presas during that time period?"

It is well known that he was working with Roland Dantes in the film industry at that time. I believe Vicente Sanchez was working in the film industry then as well and worked with Prof. Presas.

"On page 51, Mr. Lisondra admitted that their group was practicing a system of techniques called Corridas that was later renamed to Tapi-Tapi. What then is corridas? How did it become to be called Tapi-Tapi by GM Presas? Who were the original practitioners of Corridas? And most importantly, who were the real originators of Modern Arnis as a system? Who prepared the original manuscript of the book Modern Arnis? What happened to the original manuscript?"

Corridas is principle part of balintawak eskrima training. Remy trained in balintawak eskrima under Rodolfo Moncal, Timoteo Maranga and Ancion Bacon. From my limited training in balintawak and extensive training in Modern Arnis, Tapi-Tapi appears to be a derivative of the original corridas.

"Let me start in the mid 1960s when I was still an elementary pupil at UNO-R in Bacolod City . Prof. Remegio “Remy” Amador Presas of Hinigaran was employed as college PE instructor at the university, teaching Karate and Judo as PE elective subjects during that time. During that period, Prof. Presas was popular and known as a Karate and Judo man, rather than a stickfighting instructor."

It is also well known that arts like karate and judo were more popular than the indigenous arts at that time. It is not surprising that he was known as a karate/judo man when that was what he was employed as.

"There were also other things revealed to me by my uncles which I personally believe should not go public and must be kept and buried in order not to destroy the legacy of today’s Modern Arnis. It is best kept in secret to preserve the good memories of Col. Pedro “Pete” P. Doromal Jr., Capt. Nelson P. Doromal, and Prof. Remegio “Remy” A. Presas. These three people are no longer with us today."

In other words, to commemorate the 7th anniversary of Prof. Presas' passing away, it's now time to bring up "history" that can't/won't be verified so that the good memories of these men may be preserved. You must be well schooled in American politics to come up with a line like that.

The duel, the borrowing of the manuscript which was never returned (if so, call it for what it was - theft) may all be true but why wait 7 years if you already had this data?

"There are still people alive today who know the story and could vouch for its authenticity. Mr. Julio Euraba and Col. Atty. GM Marcelo “Pope” C. Jalandoon, Ph.D., of Talisay City, Negros Occidental are just two of them. I would rather not mention the names of the other people to respect their privacy. However, I could easily refer anyone who wishes to check with them in private."

Now that you have come public, why not have them do so as well?

"Let me again say that I am not putting anyone into the bad light. I am merely correcting an error which has continued for decades. Let history be right and truth prevail about modern arnis. Mabuhay ang lahing Filipino! Mabuhay ang Arnis!"

And let me say, "Gook Luck, Uncle Buck." This not merely 'correcting an error.' Whether true or not, this is ONE MAN (you) who is talking smack about one of the two men (the other being Guro Dan Inosanto) who have successfully done more than any other to bring the Filipino Martial Arts into the world eye.

Unless you can back up your data with creditable sources who are willing to come out and corroberate your story, this is sour grapes - pure and simple.

IF you can corroberate this story, I will be the first to publicly apologize to you for my antagonistic remarks.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Senior Master Remy Presas Modern Arnis

Wow, oh my, why this all over again?

Morgan

 

[Morgan]

Please excuse my comments but it is how I feel at the moment and also when I read this the other night from E-D.


I believe this is another Filipino and Filipino Family that believes that since they are Filipino from the Phillipines they can say what they want and it will be true. The point is that people like this are trying to get a piece of the pie. And instead of just coming out and showing what they got, and basing it upon merit they want to try to say they are the only ones.

There have been people who are upset about non filipinos claiming leadership. There have been people upset about those from the PI coming out of the wood work with claims of rank and titles. There were some long time students of Modern Arnis in the Phillipines who should be leading thei own orgs in the PI and can travel and spread the art. The same is true of those in North America and Europe. If you claim leadership or you find yourself with people following you, then show your stuff and let people decided.

No one will please everyone all time.


If they have proof that can be verified, I would be interested in reading it.

Seeing the actual documentation that support these claims would be very helpful and important.

Morgan

 

[chris arena]

Like the hamburger add a few years back. "Where's the beef"!

Also, this type of crap never stops. For instance, if you look on E-Bay, you can now purchase a copy of a MODERN ARNIS BLACK BELT CERTIFICATE! Goerge Hoover, one of the NSI oldster's (even older than I), took the time to respond to this forger and even got a response from him stating that his reason for creating this fraud was... "Every body else is doing it and why not him"!

This is yet another reason for Remy's statement. "Do your own work"!
But would'nt if be fun to walk in to one of the Mc Dojo's that purchased one of these phony certificates, join the class and then proceed to play with this clown. (and not in a polite way)! Hopefully, his day will come!!

Chris A

 

[Guro Harold]

Like the hamburger add a few years back. "Where's the beef"!

Also, this type of crap never stops. For instance, if you look on E-Bay, you can now purchase a copy of a MODERN ARNIS BLACK BELT CERTIFICATE! Goerge Hoover, one of the NSI oldster's (even older than I), took the time to respond to this forger and even got a response from him stating that his reason for creating this fraud was... "Every body else is doing it and why not him"!

This is yet another reason for Remy's statement. "Do your own work"!
But would'nt if be fun to walk in to one of the Mc Dojo's that purchased one of these phony certificates, join the class and then proceed to play with this clown. (and not in a polite way)! Hopefully, his day will come!!

Chris A

Thanks for the heads up Chris.

The certificate in question can be found here.

If there is one good thing about this situation, is that at least it wasn't any of the "blank" signed certificates from the Professor.

Actually, I could be wrong but the picture used looks awefully familiar.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Also, this type of crap never stops. For instance, if you look on E-Bay, you can now purchase a copy of a MODERN ARNIS BLACK BELT CERTIFICATE! Goerge Hoover, one of the NSI oldster's (even older than I), took the time to respond to this forger and even got a response from him stating that his reason for creating this fraud was... "Every body else is doing it and why not him"!

That sucks and is just WRONG

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Nice. I wonder if the copyright holder of that picture knows it's being used this way......
Penalty if up to $250,000 if its not authorized.....

 

[Rich Parsons]

Thanks for the heads up Chris.

The certificate in question can be found here.

If there is one good thing about this situation, is that at least it wasn't any of the "blank" signed certificates from the Professor.

Actually, I could be wrong but the picture used looks awefully familiar.

Oh Oh Oh Can I have one?!? Please Please Please?!?

I mean it has errors in grammar as well as being insulting. I wonder if I could get one with Rank of pi? How many digits do you think he could print out?

Shameful in my mind. If your instructor gives you a cert and rank that is one thing. Yet this makes me shake my head and wonder about people.

 

[Guro Harold]

Nice. I wonder if the copyright holder of that picture knows it's being used this way......
Penalty if up to $250,000 if its not authorized.....

I could be wrong but I think that was a Raleigh, NC seminar picture.

 

[stickarts]

Thanks for the heads up Chris.

The certificate in question can be found here.

If there is one good thing about this situation, is that at least it wasn't any of the "blank" signed certificates from the Professor.

Actually, I could be wrong but the picture used looks awefully familiar.

thanks for posting the link to the cert. eye opening.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Wow. I never saw the cert up on ebay for sale. THAT takes the cake! Yeehah!

Dan

PS - No, Rich. You cannot have one! Now behave!

 

[Morgan]

Thanks for the heads up Chris.

The certificate in question can be found here.

If there is one good thing about this situation, is that at least it wasn't any of the "blank" signed certificates from the Professor.

Actually, I could be wrong but the picture used looks awefully familiar.

Ok, I checked and my Modern Arnis certificate looks nothing like that one!!

You're right, the picture is familiar but I just cn't place it yet. But it does look like a photo of Professor that might have appeared on the cover of Black Belt Magazine in 1997 or 98. I'm just not sure, but I'm going searching.

Morgan

 

[Bob Hubbard]

A closer look at that cert is interesting.

We used the original picture back in 2003 for MT magazine.

http://martialtalkmagazine.com/pdfeditions.htm
It looks like a crop off our cover, but I've seen that shot on a number of sites. I believe it's also on our Remy memorial site too.

 

[Guro Harold]

Ok, I checked and my Modern Arnis certificate looks nothing like that one!!

You're right, the picture is familiar but I just cn't place it yet. But it does look like a photo of Professor that might have appeared on the cover of Black Belt Magazine in 1997 or 98. I'm just not sure, but I'm going searching.

Morgan

Yeah, can't place it. Can't say it's a Raleigh pic anymore, but I have seen it before.

Also, whoever is doing this has some knowledge of Modern Arnis...

"Modern Arnis has become one of the world's fastest growing martial arts.

Training covers empty-hand self-defense (striking, locking, throwing, etc.) as well as the trademark single and double stick techniques of the Filipino martial arts.
Other aspects of the art include espada y daga (sword and dagger fighting), sinawali
(double stick weaving patterns), and tapi-tapi (locking drills with the stick). In addition to partner drills,
Modern Arnis includes the use of anyo (kata), solo forms both with and without the stick.
Emphasis is placed on fitting the art in with a student's previous training ("the art within your art"),
smoothly reacting to changing situations in the fight ("the flow"), and countering the opponent's attempt to counter
strikes directed at him ("tapi-tapi"). Practitioners are called arnisadors or Modern Arnis players.
It is derived principally from the traditional Presas family style of the
Bolo (machete) and the stick-dueling art of Balintawak,
with influences from other Filipino and Japanese martial arts."​