Retail Outlets that do not allow Concealed Weapons

[Lisa]

While traveling this summer I happened across a notice on the doors of the Mall of America stating that do not allow people to carry concealed weapons on their premises.

When you see notices, do you boycott that facility? What do you believe is the reasoning behind the rules of these facilities?

Curious, I am.

 

[Cruentus]

I try to boycott them. Luckily, I have yet to run into one in Michigan, even though I know they exist.

Their reasoning? There usually isn't any; just anti-gun illogic.

 

[Lisa]

I try to boycott them. Luckily, I have yet to run into one in Michigan, even though I know they exist.

Their reasoning? There usually isn't any; just anti-gun illogic.

I seriously wonder how many people ignore the request and carry anyways.

 

[Blindside]

While traveling this summer I happened across a notice on the doors of the Mall of America stating that do not allow people to carry concealed weapons on their premises.

When you see notices, do you boycott that facility? What do you believe is the reasoning behind the rules of these facilities?

Curious, I am.

Trolley Square in Salt Lake City is posted as "no weapons," obviously it did nothing to deter the shooter, what did deter the situation was an off-duty cop who failed to follow the posted signs and was carrying concealed.

Also, depending on which state you are in those signs may or may not actually have any weight of law behind them.

Lamont

 

[Cruentus]

I seriously wonder how many people ignore the request and carry anyways.

No comment!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Also, depending on which state you are in those signs may or may not actually have any weight of law behind them.

Lamont

Lamont is definately right on here in that how does a retailer rule supercede a State License? :erg: Now if you were employed by the retailer they have every right to enforce you not having weapons concealed but as a customer that would be a real tough sell in a court of law.

 

[Lisa]

No comment!

someone say something? :uhyeah:

 

[Carol]

Lamont is definately right on here in that how does a retailer rule supercede a State License? :erg: Now if you were employed by the retailer they have every right to enforce you not having weapons concealed but as a customer that would be a real tough sell in a court of law.

the laws vary from state to state, but a retailer generally can't prosecute weapons charges for a customer that carries on their premises. However, give that it is private property, they can ask a person to leave.

How would they know who to ask? They would have to know who is carrying...and with a properly holstered sidearm, that is impossible to tell.

Concealed means n one should know you have it...IMO, these rules are likely inspired by people that got spooked by sloppy carry habits.

 

[Lisa]

Lamont is definately right on here in that how does a retailer rule supercede a State License? :erg: Now if you were employed by the retailer they have every right to enforce you not having weapons concealed but as a customer that would be a real tough sell in a court of law.

Now that is a good question. I wonder about that myself.

And what happens when a maniac opens fire and someone with a concealed permit shoots him in a retail area that has that rule? What will happen to that person?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I seriously wonder how many people ignore the request and carry anyways.

I'm afraid I must preemptively confess to disobedience of any store's particular policy I may encounter which does not preclude MA state law which says I can, sorry.

Unless it is a place specifically forbidden on the state's or Federal govt's books( Federal property, military installation, bank, post office, depending on the state, maybe police stations, depending on the state, bars, and so on), they haven't a legal leg to stand on. They can ask you to leave( assuming they are patting you down for weapons and see one, which is a whole nother legal can of worms, such as in several cases in my past where searching for my CCW piece would have been tantamount to indecent assault)), and lose a customer, perhaps several more as a result, but that's about it.

 

[Cruentus]

Lamont is definately right on here in that how does a retailer rule supercede a State License? :erg: Now if you were employed by the retailer they have every right to enforce you not having weapons concealed but as a customer that would be a real tough sell in a court of law.

It brings up the interesting argument regarding private property. Private property owners can request that you don't bring in your firearms. Disobeying that rule, however, is not breaking the law (provided you are lawfully carrying); it is just disobeying their wishes, of which all they can do at that point is ask you to leave. The hilarity of it all is that by carrying "concealed," they wouldn't, and don't, know the difference anyway.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

It brings up the interesting argument regarding private property. Private property owners can request that you don't bring in your firearms. Disobeying that rule, however, is not breaking the law (provided you are lawfully carrying); it is just disobeying their wishes, of which all they can do at that point is ask you to leave. The hilarity of it all is that by carrying "concealed," they wouldn't, and don't, know the difference anyway.

But then, we could also ask--can a retail store, in a mall, be considered "private" property since by nature of being a "public" place of business during business hours, it, by definition extends an open invitation to all during those hours?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

But then, we could also ask--can a retail store, in a mall, be considered "private" property since by nature of being a "public" place of business during business hours, it, by definition extends an open invitation to all during those hours?

Well under legal law it will always be considered private property.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Well under legal law it will always be considered private property.

OK, as long as illegal law doesn't come into it

 

[thardey]

the laws vary from state to state, but a retailer generally can't prosecute weapons charges for a customer that carries on their premises. However, give that it is private property, they can ask a person to leave.

How would they know who to ask? They would have to know who is carrying...and with a properly holstered sidearm, that is impossible to tell.

Concealed means n one should know you have it...IMO, these rules are likely inspired by people that got spooked by sloppy carry habits.

I'm afraid I must preemptively confess to disobedience of any store's particular policy I may encounter which does not preclude MA state law which says I can, sorry.

Unless it is a place specifically forbidden on the state's or Federal govt's books( Federal property, military installation, bank, post office, depending on the state, maybe police stations, depending on the state, bars, and so on), they haven't a legal leg to stand on. They can ask you to leave( assuming they are patting you down for weapons and see one, which is a whole nother legal can of worms, such as in several cases in my past where searching for my CCW piece would have been tantamount to indecent assault)), and lose a customer, perhaps several more as a result, but that's about it.

It brings up the interesting argument regarding private property. Private property owners can request that you don't bring in your firearms. Disobeying that rule, however, is not breaking the law (provided you are lawfully carrying); it is just disobeying their wishes, of which all they can do at that point is ask you to leave. The hilarity of it all is that by carrying "concealed," they wouldn't, and don't, know the difference anyway.

Yep, yep, yep. That's what they explained to us at the CCW class I took.

IF they know I have it, and they ask me to leave, I am looking at tresspassing issues if I refuse. But who's really going to push it? Besides, I would just have to show them I left it in my truck, and I could come right back in.

We've got those signs everywhere here, at the Mall, at the Movie theater, minute markets, I didn't notice the little stickers until I started watching for them. A lot of our sporting goods stores have policies about firearms, but if you show the people in the front of the store it's unloaded, you can take it in to test-try holsters and stuff.

You couldn't function as a CCW holder if you followed all of those signs. Besides, Oregon is an open-carry state, so I think most of those signs are company policy from some out-of-state manager keeping people from bringing their gun in conspicuously. (AKA hog-leg).

But it's written into our state law that no one can preclude the right to carry concealed with a CCW, not the county, or the city governments specifically, not the school board, and certainly not a store.

 

[Sukerkin]

This is one of those circumstances where owners of businesses are taking upon themselves to create laws that have no weight. They are not lawmakers but merely private citizens on their own property.

For example, we used to have signs all over hotels in this country that basically stated that if you had any of your valuables stolen or damaged then the hotel was not liable. This was legal hogwash as part and parcel of the business premesis being private property is the fact that they are responsible for ensuring reasonable safety for you and your belongings. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't take reasonable care yourself but if you do and something happens then it's the hotel that is under legal obligation.

 

[Lisa]

So basically it is all bogus

 

[thardey]

So . . . .

Does this fall under the category as sneaking snacks into a movie theater?

Come on, admit it, I know you do!

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Hell, I cop to both, I ain't proud

 

[thardey]

Which raises the question: If you took both into a theater, and they suspected you of sneaking "something" in, which would you admit to?


"No sir, that's not a box of milk-duds, that's my gun!"

Do-oh!