Regarding the future of TKD

[terryl965]

Does one really need to know the past to unite Tae Kwon Do for the future? I was just talking to some people and they feel as well as I that the past maybe what is truely stoping the actual growth of TKD to be unified. I am not sure if it is true but I have to agree with them that it seems if we cannot bring the founding fathers together how can we bring the young people to relize this dream of unification.

 

[dancingalone]

Why do we talk so much about 'unification'? Is this sort of like missionaries converting the savages?

 

[terryl965]

Why do we talk so much about 'unification'? Is this sort of like missionaries converting the savages?

I do not know but I have been hearing alot of this lately, even at the tournament this past weekend certain people was talking about it. So I believe it is in the eyes of alot of people and they believe it can be done.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

As Ive said before, I believe tkd has became too broad a term to have the art 'united'. There are many forms of karate or kung fu and I would imagine tkd will go the same way. Sport tkd clubs would not want to teach what we learn where I train and vice versa. They are both 'real' tkd, neither is more correct in what they teach and both would have very respected and knowledgable masters with years of tkd experience but the end result is so different. I really hope we can go the way of these other arts and have different names for the different 'types' of tkd, if for no other reason than to help the general public better understand tkd. People start tkd for a variety of reasons and different tkd clubs offer such a different take on tkd, so it makes it very hard for a potential client who simply looks up "tkd" in the yellow pages. What sort of tkd they will get and whether it will suit what they are looking for is becoming a lottery.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Does one really need to know the past to unite Tae Kwon Do for the future? I was just talking to some people and they feel as well as I that the past maybe what is truely stoping the actual growth of TKD to be unified. I am not sure if it is true but I have to agree with them that it seems if we cannot bring the founding fathers together how can we bring the young people to relize this dream of unification.

Great points. I think you hit it on the nail, the past is haunting the present!

Now this is only my opinion:
Since TKD's past is troublesome on some level for some people & TKD's history is clouded & controversial, I respectfully suggest that before one can move forward, they have to deal with the past.
For instance, we have to more fully understand what happened, when & where did it happen & who made it happen.
Then we have to try to understand the context of the times that all of the above was taking place in, as it impacted what happened, how it was recorded & the lives of the people involved.
Once this happens, more will understand some of the confusion & can start to sort it all out. When they do that, they will see the common roots & the paths taken away from those roots. It then will become easier to see that all the fighting was for naught, as there was more than 1 path of development & more than 1 person who developed TKD.

Then maybe we can get past all the nonsense, let the dust settle, clean of the dust from ourselves & our fellow TKDin's back, as their arms & hands can't reach back there. Once we clean off their dust, they can clean our backs. We both can clean our hands, shake each others hands, sit down & eat some kimchee & drink some OB & soju, while we are waiting for the galbi & boolgogi to cook on the Korean BBQ!

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I do not know but I have been hearing alot of this lately, even at the tournament this past weekend certain people was talking about it. So I believe it is in the eyes of alot of people and they believe it can be done.

I would guess that more people are becoming aware of the history & the nonsense that no longer exists in a free Korea. They also very clearly realize that it was not their fight, so why continue, especially when we see that there should never have been the fighting.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

As Ive said before, I believe tkd has became too broad a term to have the art 'united'.

While this in some ways can be beneficial, it also is a major obstacle to any unification.
Maybe if the KKW became more like a university, with different colleges or departments under it, sport, SD, WTF, ITF, Kukki, Indie, Chang Hon Tuls, Taeguek Poomsae, Palgwe or PeIan forms, etc.

One could get a degree (Dan) in TKD, but have a major & even a minor concentration in their education & training listed as well. Subsequent TKD degrees can add new subjects or areas of focus.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

While this in some ways can be beneficial, it also is a major obstacle to any unification.
Maybe if the KKW became more like a university, with different colleges or departments under it, sport, SD, WTF, ITF, Kukki, Indie, Chang Hon Tuls, Taeguek Poomsae, Palgwe or PeIan forms, etc.

One could get a degree (Dan) in TKD, but have a major & even a minor concentration in their education & training listed as well. Subsequent TKD degrees can add new subjects or areas of focus.

something like that would be a good idea, sort of having all 'types' of tkd under the one roof. It could be a logistical nightmare, but the idea sure has merit.

 

[dancingalone]

something like that would be a good idea, sort of having all 'types' of tkd under the one roof. It could be a logistical nightmare, but the idea sure has merit.

<shrugs> The University of Texas at Austin along with Texas A&M University have two of the top petroleum engineering departments in the world. Yet they are distinctly different organizations and are competitive rivals in some respects.

No need for everything to be under one roof. What synergy might be gained can also be as easily lost through internecine politics.

 

[puunui]

Since TKD's past is troublesome on some level for some people & TKD's history is clouded & controversial

Taekwondo's past is only troublesome and Taekwondo history is only clouded and controversial if you attempt to blend in General Choi's claims and lies with what actually happened. I have a very clear picture of Taekwondo's past, which is not clouded or controversial. It is a very inspiring story, one of unity and cooperation.

 

[puunui]

One could get a degree (Dan) in TKD, but have a major & even a minor concentration in their education & training listed as well. Subsequent TKD degrees can add new subjects or areas of focus.

We already have that. If you wish to be an athlete, you train under a competent instructor. If you want to be an instructor, you take the Kukkiwon Instructor Course. If you wish to be a referee, you take the International Referee course. If you want to work on self defense primarily, no one will stop you. If you wish to get into the sports medicine or athletic training aspects, you can do that, and then write your high dan thesis on these areas. The only limits in Taekwondo are the limits you place on yourself.

 

[leadleg]

We already have that. If you wish to be an athlete, you train under a competent instructor. If you want to be an instructor, you take the Kukkiwon Instructor Course. If you wish to be a referee, you take the International Referee course. If you want to work on self defense primarily, no one will stop you. If you wish to get into the sports medicine or athletic training aspects, you can do that, and then write your high dan thesis on these areas. The only limits in Taekwondo are the limits you place on yourself.

Hmmmm, I like this and agree 110 percent!

 

[leadleg]

Why do we talk so much about 'unification'? Is this sort of like missionaries converting the savages?

Running around barefoot,in pajama's, yelling gutteral kihaps,kicking and punching at all types targets,trying to knock each other out and laughing about it. Throwing one another to the floor,twisting till they stand on their tippy toes slapping their sides with wide eyed grimaces, giving applause for said pain.............could be savage.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

The only way you will get complete unification is if everyone joins the kukkiwon, but that will never happen so there will always be 'factions'.

 

[leadleg]

The only way you will get complete unification is if everyone joins the kukkiwon, but that will never happen so there will always be 'factions'.

Do you think that at some point clubs may have to be liscened by tho gov't, I do.

If they ever are I could see a lot of people looking to an organisation for liscensing, the KKW may be the most reliable and easiest to aquire.
Wait you are from Australia,perhaps that will not be an issue there.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Do you think that at some point clubs may have to be liscened by tho gov't, I do.

Why would you think the government will require schools to be "licensed"? And what do you think that would entail?

Pax,

Chris

 

[puunui]

The only way you will get complete unification is if everyone joins the kukkiwon, but that will never happen so there will always be 'factions'.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Nothing would get done if all objections had to first be overcome. In your case, you are semi already there. What is the harm in getting that Kukkiwon certification? You may not think you need it now, but who knows what the future holds. I can tell you terrible tale of woe after tale of friends of mine who did not think that Kukkiwon certification was important way back when, but now they realize they wish they got it way back when. I have a friend I have been trying to promote to Kukkiwon dan for over twenty years, and then all of a sudden he wanted it a couple of years ago, mainly so he can promote his students. I had to start him off at 1st Dan, he is 2nd Dan now, and next year he will be 3rd.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Nothing would get done if all objections had to first be overcome. In your case, you are semi already there. What is the harm in getting that Kukkiwon certification? You may not think you need it now, but who knows what the future holds. I can tell you terrible tale of woe after tale of friends of mine who did not think that Kukkiwon certification was important way back when, but now they realize they wish they got it way back when. I have a friend I have been trying to promote to Kukkiwon dan for over twenty years, and then all of a sudden he wanted it a couple of years ago, mainly so he can promote his students. I had to start him off at 1st Dan, he is 2nd Dan now, and next year he will be 3rd.

I think the main reason I have not gone and got a kukkiwon cert is because I dont believe that what I do is closely related enough to the kukki curriculum. After watching local clubs train/demo who are kukki affiliated it just reiterates my belief that I would be very out of my depth at a kukki club. We spar differently, our forms are different, our stances look different and so forth. If, for some reason my club, or the other 2 local clubs who are non affiliated ceased to exist tomorrow (and there is a better chance of pigs flying when I awake tomorrow), I really think I would probably persue a different art and Id be happy to put on the white belt and start over. I think I would probably start in hapkido as it looks like a lot of fun to me and a lot of it seems very similar to what we do in parts and would seem like a logical progression from what I do currently. I think I would really struggle physically to go and start at a kukki club and start learning taegeks and olympic style sparring etc. If just my club vanished tomorrow I would go and join one of the other independent "old school" clubs as their curriculum is very similar to ours and they would start me at my current rank providing I did the palgwes, some sparring, self defence, timber breaking etc. I did give thought at one point to getting a kukki cert but for me it really serves no purpose as its a certification for something I cant/dont do.

 

[puunui]

I think the main reason I have not gone and got a kukkiwon cert is because I dont believe that what I do is closely related enough to the kukki curriculum.

That, in my opinion, is not a sufficient reason not to get Kukkiwon certification. Again, you never know how your interests will change. And they will change, believe me. And if they don't change, then that means you are not really growing, if you are thinking the same thoughts that you are today. Think about when you were five years old. Are you still thinking the same thoughts as you were back then? Are your priorities the same? It's up to you, but for me, better safe than sorry. Throw it in the closet if you don't want to look at it, but at least it is there, in case your thinking changes in the future.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

That, in my opinion, is not a sufficient reason not to get Kukkiwon certification. Again, you never know how your interests will change. And they will change, believe me. And if they don't change, then that means you are not really growing, if you are thinking the same thoughts that you are today. Think about when you were five years old. Are you still thinking the same thoughts as you were back then? Are your priorities the same? It's up to you, but for me, better safe than sorry. Throw it in the closet if you don't want to look at it, but at least it is there, in case your thinking changes in the future.

I agree wholeheartedly, and I am one for changing my mind regularly(just ask any of my mates), BUT, I still think if I woke up tomorrow and thought "you know what, I really want to get into kukki tkd, it looks like a lot of fun", I would be better off joining a kukki club, donning the white belt and learning the curriculum from ground up. My current black belt has about as much relevence to kukki tkd as it does to BJJ, they are chalk and cheese. I would be embarrassed to walk into a kukki club in a black belt because when it comes to kukki tkd I am a complete newbie and should start all over. Probably the time it would take me to learn the taegeks and adjust to their sparring and techs etc would be the same amount of time it would take to just start over and get a black belt from scratch. Its the exact reason that when kukki black belts come to our club they start at white belt.