Recommendations... and why?

[Buka]

My 2 cents. I'd never grapple to submit a bully. I'd kick him in the slats, drop him to his knees, and then knock out his front teeth and black both his eyes. Even if I had to do it with a rock.

No play dates with the other kids, bro.

But I do want you for headmaster.

 

[drop bear]

Probably the Beej.

Kid gets a martial art that is not going to get him messed up. Has access to competition if he wants. Has acces to teaching opportunity if he wants.

But can also go from school to school and have that sense of community.

BJJers love other BJJers. They want you to do it and they want you to be good at it.

So if your kid winds up somewhere new. There is always a BJJ school somewhere. And therefore a common interest.

And you take your rank with you. So effort in one school is reflected in all the other schools.

 

[geezer]

Probably the Beej.

Kid gets a martial art that is not going to get him messed up. Has access to competition if he wants. Has acces to teaching opportunity if he wants. But can also go from school to school and have that sense of community. BJJers love other BJJers. They want you to do it and they want you to be good at it...

All well and good, but it really depends on the kid. I loved wrestling as a kid... and regretted that I didn't go further with grappling arts... so I tried enrolling my boy in a kid's wrestling program, and when that didn't click, tried him in a kids BJJ program. He ended up choosing TKD. As a rule, kids will do what they want to do.

 

[drop bear]

All well and good, but it really depends on the kid. I loved wrestling as a kid... and regretted that I didn't go further with grappling arts... so I tried enrolling my boy in a kid's wrestling program, and when that didn't click, tried him in a kids BJJ program. He ended up choosing TKD. As a rule, kids will do what they want to do.

Yeah but what the kid wants to do kind of negates the need for this thread.

You would just ask the kid.

 

[geezer]

Yeah but what the kid wants to do kind of negates the need for this thread.

You would just ask the kid.

Well, the kid might not really know at the outset. So you try different things and eventually they find their way.

 

[KangTsai]

Most convenient thing would be to get the kid wrestling in school. I can reliably recommend BJJ of course.

 

[KangTsai]

Muay Thai :-D I'm just kidding. Muay Thai is a great martial art and I love it but it may not suitable for such a young kid. I would recommend a semi-contact karate or semi contact kickboxing if he wants to learn a stand-up striking

Aaah, Thailand. Spectacles of 8-year-olds beating the living [politely unstated] out of each other every Tuesday afternoon.

 

[Tez3]

Aaah, Thailand. Spectacles of 8-year-olds beating the living [politely unstated] out of each other every Tuesday afternoon.

For a few coins.

 

[Jedmus]

Got to agree with Bill on this one.

Over the years at school I was bullied a fair few times (different schools etc.). I studied Aikido and TaeKwon-Do when I was younger and when I was attacked it was always by at least 3 people, my TaeKwon-Do was definitely what saved me.

The only thing that stopped them attacking me was to go full force and make sure they weren't going to be able to hurt me. It worked every time and oddly enough I ended up getting apologies from most of them.

The only time I've seen grappling in a bully situation is when someone started on my friend and got him in a chokehold on the floor. This then turned into around 30 people at school all standing around and laughing. The only thing that stopped my friend going unconscious was me kicking the little ****. This ended with the bully in hospital and me and my friend getting in a whole lot of trouble with the school.

What is approved by schools and what is actually going to save you from continuing attacks are not the same thing. I would always recommend an art that concentrates more on striking than grappling. You're more vulnerable on the floor than stood up.

 

[JP3]

I'd recommend a instructor, not a style.

Rule-Breaker, Andrew. Precisely the type of obvious answer I wanted you to avoid.

Do you have a specific instructor in mind? if so, what does he teach to kids?

 

[JP3]

Does the child actually want to do martial arts or does the father think the child should do it? Makes a huge difference between a willing student and an unwilling one. There's no style or instructor can force a child to enjoy training and to get anything out of it. Oh I've heard stories about children whose parents have put them in and some 'brilliant' instructor has turned it all around etc etc but really put yourself into an 8 year olds shoes and think about being forced to go into a martial arts class when you'd much rather be doing something like swimming, ball games, athletics etc.
If the child really wants to do martial arts then find the instructor that clicks with them, the class the child says 'wow' at and that you can afford to pay for a long time! In the UK you'd check to see if the instructors had their DBS ( a police check), first aid certifications and the club had child protection policies in place.

Tez.... not what I'm going after.

Of course in the real world you would do all of those things. But, thost things are not aprt of a parent trying to determine what "type" or "style" that they feel would be aa proper type of training for their kid.

Remember, a premise of my inquiry was that all other things are good, all things are positive, and in my fantasy-world... all ther responses come back positive. So, would you want them kicking, or punching, or grabbing, ro a combo or what?

 

[JP3]

My thoughts on this, and they are just opinions, mind you, are these.

First, we're assuming the kid wants to train martial arts.

Second, we're assuming the kid specifically wants self-defense and not sport or fitness, etc.

Third, with regard to bullies in schools...

It was always my observation that bullies work in packs. Bullies like to have their crew with them when they do their thing; they don't bully on their lonesome. Bullies are also quite often big kids compared to the others their own age. Every kid who ever bullied me was well above average in height and weight. Often a big fat kid whom even the jocks gave space to, even if the bully didn't go after them.

I don't know if grappling a school bully when they are surrounded by their howling hyenas is that great of an idea. You take the kid down (assuming you can, because he's often much larger), you submit him, and then what? You think his minions are going to let this happen without jumping in?

Personally, I recall the lessons of my father. Granted this was a different time. A bully hits you, you go grab the biggest board or stick or brick you can find and you walk up to him and lay him out flat. Busted nose, missing teeth, the whole nine yards. And you go nuts on him and make them peel you off him. Make it clear you're a dangerous SOB and have no problems crossing the line if pushed. Yes, you get suspended from school. But you also earn a safe space for yourself and all your friends; the bully will choose greener pastures and make all kinds of excuses to his pals to never bother you again.

You only have to do it once, typically. My parents moved around a lot when I was a kid, so I got to do it multiple times. The few times I decided I didn't want to fight, I got pushed into fighting anyway, after some agonizing weeks of bullying.

I think karate, TKD, etc, are fine for school kids. Yes, it can run contrary to school rules. Oh well. One of the kids in our dojo told us that his school teaches that if a bully attacks you, you should roll into a fetal position and call for a teacher. Really.

Once upon a time, I was riding my bicycle in the street in a small town, population about 400. Everybody knew everybody. I was in 5th or 6th grade of elementary school. A high school senior was hanging out with his friends at the grocery store and he threw a dirt clod at me while I was riding away. I mean he threw a fastball and it exploded in the middle of my back. Hurt like the bejabbers.

I turned around and rode back to his group. Got off my bike. They were all laughing their guts out. I walked up to the guy who threw the dirtclod and I punched him dead square in the face. I mean I had to jump two feet in the air to even REACH his face.

He looked very shocked. The laughter stopped. Then he proceeded to whup my ***. Bad.

When he stopped hitting me and I slowly got up and got back on my bike, I said to him, "You ever do that again and I'll punch you again."

He never did it again. He avoided me when he saw me. So did his friends. And all it cost me was a whuppin', and the willingness to fight back.

My 2 cents. I'd never grapple to submit a bully. I'd kick him in the slats, drop him to his knees, and then knock out his front teeth and black both his eyes. Even if I had to do it with a rock.

I've a similar story in the background. Suffice it to say... I'm not at all on board with the "No Tolerance, No Self-Defense" schtick currently in vogue in public schools.

I tend to see the point about grappling the lion while the hyenas are circling. But, also I'd point out that the mere participation in such a combat related art as a BJJ or Judo (or any of the others) can build a willingness to "engage" and in BJJ class they will talk about yoru exposure to others while engaged in groundwork.

 

[JP3]

It depends on what their interests are, their personality, what's available, how qualified the different local instructors are, the culture & environment of their schools, etc. I don't think hypotheticals this general are very useful.

Useful for whom, and for what? For you, it might not be. I get that. A bit ... pre-determined to say so for someone else.

The people on this board, as a general rule of thumb, have been training for some years (with exceptions of course), have experienced a martial art in depth, or several. They have at some point considered the question of which art would be good for my/his/her/their kid.

The initial quality questions of is the kid even interested; is the teacher good at what it is that he/she teaches; is the teacher/school a good "fit" between the school and the kid are all real, good, true reality questions. I'm researching folks opinions on where they'd generally think a child should go.

AFTER the above real world questions are handled satisfactorily.

 

[Tez3]

Of course in the real world you would do all of those things. But, thost things are not aprt of a parent trying to determine what "type" or "style" that they feel would be aa proper type of training for their kid.

in my fantasy-world...

So, why a fantasy post. If you don't want proper advice just some meaningless chatter why not just say so. People have spent time with serious advice and discussion and now you say 'oh it's not real, it's just a fantasy'. to be honest I don't see why we should waste time being serious with you when you don't want serious just nebulous answers.

 

[JP3]

So, why a fantasy post. If you don't want proper advice just some meaningless chatter why not just say so. People have spent time with serious advice and discussion and now you say 'oh it's not real, it's just a fantasy'. to be honest I don't see why we should waste time being serious with you when you don't want serious just nebulous answers.

What is wrong with you?

The premise of my post takes into account literally everything you said in a sort of universally inclusive everything is good, sort of way. I want to know why you would say I think that this style/art would be good for kids, or that one. It is not hard, it is not mystical, it's not even highbrow. Would you opine to someone that kids should go into grappling arts before striking arts, and if so, why?

The other things, as I stated elsewhere, are obvious. Of course you'd recommend that they visit schools. or course you'd find out fromt he kid, thus the inquiry in the first place. Of course you look for quality instructors, who have no history of being bad actors against children. All of those things are assumed.

Goodness gracious. It was not hard.

 

[Tez3]

What is wrong with you?

You are rather rude aren't you?

The premise of my post takes into account literally everything you said in a sort of universally inclusive everything is good, sort of way. I want to know why you would say I think that this style/art would be good for kids, or that one. It is not hard, it is not mystical, it's not even highbrow. Would you opine to someone that kids should go into grappling arts before striking arts, and if so, why?

What on earth are you on about? Mystical? highbrow? you are waffling man.


You didn't like my posts, that's fine but to start having a go at me is not exactly cricket, shows bad form. If it's not what you wanted, it's not what you wanted but do stop flannelling and say what you mean. I don't 'opine' to anyone, what a strange expression. Ask a question in plain English and if it's not what you want, ignore it, it's really not that important that you should try to go all Dickens on us. What on earth are 'bad actors against children'?

There is no 'good' or 'bad' art for children, it depends as it does with adults on what the individual is like. Simple answer for your fantasy.

Useful for whom, and for what? For you, it might not be. I get that. A bit ... pre-determined to say so for someone else.

Rude again, just because you didn't like/understand her answer you don't have to speak to her like that, she took the time to answer and gave a good one.

 

[JP3]

"go all Dickens"

And you don't know what a "bad actor" is.

Mr. Irony is here humming to me. Ah, the joys and barriers of sharing a so-called "common language."

End of wordplay. It is merely frustrating when one asks a question, and sets the premise and said premise is ignored, that's all. And yes, I am rather rude at times, when confronted with an intentional lack of understanding. It's a failing.

 

[Danny T]

Tez.... not what I'm going after.

Of course in the real world you would do all of those things. But, thost things are not aprt of a parent trying to determine what "type" or "style" that they feel would be aa proper type of training for their kid.

Remember, a premise of my inquiry was that all other things are good, all things are positive, and in my fantasy-world... all ther responses come back positive. So, would you want them kicking, or punching, or grabbing, ro a combo or what?

In the real world most parents want their children doing something constructive that their children enjoy and that helps develop their life skills. There are some parents who want their children doing particular things and those parents usually have to pressure or force their children to do them. We provide training for children in striking only, grappling only, and a combination of the them. Attendance is about the same for all classes with those who have a choice. The greatest amount of turn over is with those whose parents chose for their child. Which children have the better level of skill? The ones who enjoy what they are training.

 

[drop bear]

Ok. Lets pretend martial arts is a career. And everybody is a guidance counselor.

We have already given them the be all you can be speach and are looking at the career paths of specific jobs.

So If I did the recomended martial art for 10 years. What do I get at the end of it?

 

[geezer]

...So If I did the recomended martial art for 10 years. What do I get at the end of it?

...A diploma!