Reality

[muayThaiPerson]

What I meant by techniques was "if this happens, then do this.." type of technique. Techniques such as striking techinues, and blocking/parrying/dodging, and takedowns are not what i meant.

 

[vincefuess]

I have a saying that applies to many martial arts and artists:

"Don't get so involved analyzing the ladder that you forget about the roof."

I agree that most defenses as taught at beginning levels of virtually ANY martial art are way too mechanical and rigid to be effective. If you notice any adept fighter (again from virtually any martial art) dealing with punching attack tends to act and react like a boxer (I mean they DO have the market cornered on punching techniques and strategies). Parries, and duck/bob/weave approaches do tend to work best against a puncher. Like any successful TECHNIQUE, the A + B = C formula is BS. This is true of any type of attack. "Traditional" martial arts seem to the most guilty of teaching the 1-2-3 approach, even if it is just a stepping stone to a more dynamic, fluid approach.

I see techniques in magazines and books all the time that are total BS. Being a successful fighter is WAY more than technique- timing, rhythm, perception, reaction, accuracy, etc... ALL of these elements come into play.

I agree with your statement, however, that no ONE WAY technique will ever be successful.

 

[muayThaiPerson]

I was fighting the other day and I never expected to react like a boxer. However I did, I was ducking and doing all these upper body movements. I almost forgot about parry and kick and all those sequences

 

[ace]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

Lets be serious, look at this "techinque", no one punches like that!

or that

.

or that. I want to know, REALLY, if any of you have found the punch defense techniques you learned as practical. Be Serious. from what ive seen, i have never seen anything like this used anywhere except a dojo.

Punch defense techinques are a bunch of crap. The only thing useful is to block, dodge, or parry. Theres is no such thing as

technique to defend against a punch!:shrug:

agreed

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Every technique that requires more than a second is all theory crap. Except in grappling arts. No one will hang in the air for a second to let you do you stuff. And in the pics, if they were going fast, the camera wouldnt be able to capture them that good.

Martial Arts techniques are a waste of time. Serious

And your opinion is based upon training in a sport. No one will stand there and let you do the technique to them, but like any other action it has to be learned at the slowest possible speed and with time and practice the body will speed it up. Stillpics are very decieving because they have to be choreographed so the viewer can see what is being done.

If you think techniques are a waste of time go visit a Kenpo school and tell them that.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Every technique that requires more than a second is all theory crap. Except in grappling arts. No one will hang in the air for a second to let you do you stuff. And in the pics, if they were going fast, the camera wouldnt be able to capture them that good.

Martial Arts techniques are a waste of time. Serious

The moves that take more than a second weren't really meant to be used in combat extensively.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
The first part has some truth to it. That is why people are telling you that still photos do not tell you the whole picture. What you see as eternityin the photo may indeed only exists in less than a second. You may get punched, kicked and the attacking limbs are withdrawn already, before you even ready to parry. Trained strikers can throw out 8-10 punches in 1 second!

Granted, those pics really are not the tell-all of striking techniques. If anything, they probably only show that THOSE people in the pics SUCK. lol


The second part "..Martial Arts techniques are a waste of time. Serious..." Hmmm..... why don't you tell that to your Muay Thai instructor/s the next time you go to class? LOL Tell them that their techniques are a waste of time and you don't need jack s%$# from them. lol

I think the record is 9.8 punches or something like that.

But yes, trained fighters can throw a flurry of punches. William Cheung can block all the punch combos of this one boxer, but even 6 punches in a second requires something other than blocking. Such as socking the guy, or trapping/locking/clinching on to him, etc. Nobody can block that many punches in a second... Maybe other than me of course :rofl:

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
What I meant by techniques was "if this happens, then do this.." type of technique. Techniques such as striking techinues, and blocking/parrying/dodging, and takedowns are not what i meant.

Yes, I agree

If they do ONLY that, then they'll think of what they'll do in a fight. That won't do. It has to be a fast reaction, an instinctive reaction.

However, the "if someone does this, you could do this or this or that" does work. As long as you practice it full-speed during sparring later over and over and over and over.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
I was fighting the other day and I never expected to react like a boxer. However I did, I was ducking and doing all these upper body movements. I almost forgot about parry and kick and all those sequences

Don't lose that quality.

Your mind subconsciously does what's best (or what at least you have trained your CNS to do). Sometimes, your body will parry, or dodge it, etc. That's what every martial artist, regardless of style is looking for. Instinctive, flowing movements. Has anyone attacked you out of the blue, then you instinctively dodge or block it? I was able to do that when I was 4 if I remember, my brother would always just hit me. After a few months of exhausting training hours a day, I wasn't able to do that anymore. Until a year later, that's when it started coming back together... Only difference. My instinct is technical and mechanical, meaning more power and speed.

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Don't lose that quality.

Your mind subconsciously does what's best (or what at least you have trained your CNS to do). Sometimes, your body will parry, or dodge it, etc. That's what every martial artist, regardless of style is looking for. Instinctive, flowing movements. Has anyone attacked you out of the blue, then you instinctively dodge or block it? I was able to do that when I was 4 if I remember, my brother would always just hit me. After a few months of exhausting training hours a day, I wasn't able to do that anymore. Until a year later, that's when it started coming back together... Only difference. My instinct is technical and mechanical, meaning more power and speed.

Which brings me to another point. In combat, kicking really rare. Its only avaiblable if the opponent is defending. Kicking will leave yourself very open. The problem with sparring is its much to light. Sparring should be a simulation of full contact combat. People who have pads on usually forget about getting hurt and just do their thing. Unfortunatley, that blinds them...they dont realize the seriousness of combat when it comes to them.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Which brings me to another point. In combat, kicking really rare. Its only avaiblable if the opponent is defending. Kicking will leave yourself very open. The problem with sparring is its much to light. Sparring should be a simulation of full contact combat. People who have pads on usually forget about getting hurt and just do their thing. Unfortunatley, that blinds them...they dont realize the seriousness of combat when it comes to them.

Full contact sparring is vital if you intend to actually be able to functionalize what you've learned against a real opponent.

But it's impossible to make sparring (full contact or otherwise) a simulation of combat.

Sparring, generally, means you know how many opponents you're facing, what weapons are involved, and that you're in a "sterile" terrain (i.e.: open space with no bystanders, obstacles, elevation changes, etc.)

But, even if you modify your sparring so you don't know any of that, then you still know that you're about to fight other trained practitioners. And, even if you pull strangers off the street, you still know that you're about to get in a fight.

While each of these gets progressively closer to a real fight, none of them are actually a real fight. The last one is undoable for so many reasons it's not even funny.

So, that means that you know you're about to fight with trained practitioners. This means that there will (usually) be some restraint showed in how injurious it gets. And, more to the point, it means that there will be a lot more feinting and "feeling out" than in most "real" fights.

Things that'll never work under sparring conditions (even the most realistic of sparring conditions) may well work in the street against an overcommitted attacker without a lot of training or experience. And, vice versa, things that will work in sparring may never work in the street.

What sparring, IMHO, should be is just another training tool. And all of our training tools should be geared toward better understanding the tools we use. By gaining better understanding of our tools, we begin to understand not only how to use those tools, but also when it's appropriate to use them.

I personally think that people who try to "simulate combat" in their sparring are shortchanging themselves in the long run. Sparring is sparring. Fighting is fighting. Sparring is a training tool that helps us learn to fight better. But never mistake sparring for fighting.

A great quote that (indirectly) relates to this:

By Ernest Hemingway
Never mistake motion for action.

Mike

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Which brings me to another point. In combat, kicking really rare. Its only avaiblable if the opponent is defending. Kicking will leave yourself very open. The problem with sparring is its much to light. Sparring should be a simulation of full contact combat. People who have pads on usually forget about getting hurt and just do their thing. Unfortunatley, that blinds them...they dont realize the seriousness of combat when it comes to them.

You refering to "high" kicking or kicking in general?

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Kicking in general