Real Knife Defense

[Darth F.Takeda]

A few post have mentioned "getting cut" when doing knife defense, well one thing our Sensei always says "Expect to get cut, but you can live with a cut, even with a life threatening cut ( excluding the throat) you still have time to kill him and get help, but stabs tend to put people down quick. If you don't get cut, great! but dont expect not to get cut."

He says this almost every time we work with knives, and that is a good thing, it keeps you grounded, after 10 years with him, I never tire of it and when I teach, I repeat it.

When we train, we are honest with each other about what happend, when you feel the knfe slide against your stomach with some pressure, you know that might have opened you up, but if you had contact with Uke, you had a chance, if you feel it poke your guy, you know there was a good chance you would have gone down.

Be it Jujutsu or when I train with Dave Wink's FMA/IMA group, getting cut is the price of admission to take the guy out.

And then there is the give to get, sometimes you have to take the knife in the forearm, to stick yours in his throat, stomach or bladder ( my favorite target, blood loss, shock, system destruction and poisoning= dead bad guy who wont get to lie in court.)

yeah, 90% of the time I have 1-2 knives on me.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Ever fought a german sheppard?
If you offer him your forearm he'll go for your nuts, but if he makes the first move and you get your forearm in the way and he bites down on it, you can grab his throat. Just saw some relation there.

 

[SKB]

Since we started with knives..... get your knife out and drive it in the dogs eye!

 

[tellner]

O Noes! The Eternal Dog-Fu Thread!

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I meant it in the sense of using part of your body as a "scapegoat" for the rest of your body to accomplish it's mission. Like I said, relation. No point discussing specifics. Metaphorically, give them an arm to chew on. Possibility not to ignore.

 

[megat]

but u gotta be careful even a slash at the arm can slice tendons and nerves, maybe u will survive but ur hand may not be the same again.

 

[bonviet]

hi don't know if this thread is still active, I'm new to the forums, have done FMA and alot of silat plus ww2 h2h knife work, and have been stabbed on one occasion, cut badly on the hands a second and preempted getting killed by assaulting him first. I've also use a knife in defense of my person(i wrote about some of this in a response to the piper system) i can understadn the dillemia and absolute frustration of BS flowing about dealing with a knife, plus a few stick ups
I would look heavily into countering the sewing machine effect that anyone with half a brain uses when trying to kill you with a knife,it is almost instinct, maybe some waving about first, but the committed man goes in and stabs you! I survived because i focused on NOT getting stabbed again. thank god with good medical care and some luck it's hard to die from one stab(im qualifying that one stab is VERY dangerous it's the contiued bulldogging with the knife that gets people killed.
I can only speak from personal experience the majority of your knife training should be empty handed against the knife, you will lose alot but you will start to see what works(armored uncooperative training partners are a must) Buzzsaw the face with palm heels and thumb gouges,If contact with the blade is made wrap it. grab it anything to prevent it from going into you over and over again.(play with this you might find interesting solutions etc. then immediately attack his testicles please research this there is no position where two people are "hugging up" where you can't reach around and obtain his scrotum from some angle. this area is an area that people cannot have squeezed yanked and twisted,i know it's dirt and not taught in classes but it works great it's so much more sensitive than even the eyes and is hard to block against in a clinch.

Controling distance will be as hard for him as it will be for you so hopefully you can negate some of his effectiveness,

and in a situation where you are worrying about distance i believe this is squaring off which never happens, run or preempt if you see the square off. Charge!

in an ambush most likely you'll feel the first stab. i did and knew immediately what it was. The absolute viciousness and one mindedness of your counterattack(immediate anything will save the day if anything will,) i attacked back with no regards for my safety (i was already on the dying ground)
Fight with this attitude it has turned many a fight,
As suggestions,
Get the crappy old pentecost book it will ruffle feathers. look at it play with it (with some protective gear) and see how it goes.
there are other books out there let me think on which i would get(spent a ton on MA videos etc and found most to be attribute drills not combat ones,
The ability to close with and go through your enemy if need be would be on my top 3-4 things that i saw as positive learning experiences from my assaults it is key to knife survival and multiple assaliant survival but so few of us can do it. for years i couldn't. practice that. Scared but Blasting through any way, all the way through the enemy, IT sounds so simple but is so important if he is worried about his sudden loss of balance his startle of being attacked hopefully with Powerful palms, gouges knees scream butting etc(this wasn't supposed to happen) ,his eyes or throat being damaged or the squeezing and yanking of his testicles while you bite and head butt him to the Ground just ferocity absolute ferocity,hopefully wrapping up the knife if possible, That is how you survive
To start a knife training with a knife drawn two partners ready to Dance around to do knife v empty hands has already shot the realism of the training in the foot.RUN. Tapi-tapi hubub etc with a knife builds aliveness but not counter blade skills,good taisabaki skills olay! stuff is betting the farm but if pulled off almost guarantees an attackers overexstention and position to be one of great disadvantage when before you were toast. but requires alot of practice, Train getting stabbed and ambushed, you'll be suprised what you come up with.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Welcome to MartialTalk! Great post, IMO. I love hearing from those who've been there. I feel this is one of the most important concepts to practice and discuss as far as SD is concerned. How about a particular kind of "legal" (explainable to police. it's tough to explain why you have a gun) weapon that works particularly well against a "knifer" that you could pack with you? I like the umbrella.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I'm also a nose biter...

 

[Blindside]

Welcome to MartialTalk! Great post, IMO. I love hearing from those who've been there. I feel this is one of the most important concepts to practice and discuss as far as SD is concerned. How about a particular kind of "legal" (explainable to police. it's tough to explain why you have a gun) weapon that works particularly well against a "knifer" that you could pack with you? I like the umbrella.

Why is it difficult to explain? "Yes officer, I carry a concealed handgun (or open carry as you can do in my state) just in case I need to defend myself." There really isn't another justfication for a handgun.

Lamont

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I live in Canada. As far as I can tell, unless you have a trigger lock on it, keep it in a safe in the basement, under a blanket with all the lights off, you aren't allowed to own a pistol. Rifles are different but pistols are "bad". If you use one against someone armed with a knife, "you are the worst kind of scum and you didn't fight fair, blah blah blah 25 years". I wonder if legalizing guns would reduce the number of knife attacks.

 

[Blindside]

I live in Canada. As far as I can tell, unless you have a trigger lock on it, keep it in a safe in the basement, under a blanket with all the lights off, you aren't allowed to own a pistol. Rifles are different but pistols are "bad". If you use one against someone armed with a knife, "you are the worst kind of scum and you didn't fight fair, blah blah blah 25 years".

Ok, that would do it.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

*sigh* Some people will never know the simple pleasures of a monkey knife fight.

 

[SKB]

I live in Canada. As far as I can tell, unless you have a trigger lock on it, keep it in a safe in the basement, under a blanket with all the lights off, you aren't allowed to own a pistol. Rifles are different but pistols are "bad". If you use one against someone armed with a knife, "you are the worst kind of scum and you didn't fight fair, blah blah blah 25 years". I wonder if legalizing guns would reduce the number of knife attacks.

You guys can have knives up there?

 

[Em MacIntosh]

We use sharp Icescicles. Or we take our knives from unsuspecting tourists. We have no knife factories up here.