"Real" Isshinryu?

dancingalone

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Edit: If you're talking about his Okinawan students, then you'd likely have to look at where they went after they split from Shimabuku. I'm sure some went to Goju-ryu, others Shorin-ryu, some may have started learning kobudo, and some may have quit.

Yes, I did mean his Okinawan students who didn't like the alterations Shimabuku made. I had understood their karate technique are generally identical to shorin-ryu with little if any influence from what Shimabuku took from Miyagi Chojun.
 

punisher73

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I'd be interested in seeing these. The video I saw was just Advincula performing some kata by himself at learning speed. It looked like it had been filmed relatively recently by the clarity of the video.


Here is the link to his videos. They are a bit pricey for the set, but each kata is it's own dvd and then a dvd for the basics (upper/lower body charts).
http://advinculavideos.com/products.html

About 2 years ago someone filmed Advincula performing all of Isshinryu's 8 katas (it was a blue dojo floor). It was for a private favor, but someone uploaded them onto youtube. When he found out he had them pulled and you can no longer have see them. I was fortunate and uploaded them off of youtube before they were removed. These might be the same clips.
 
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dancingalone

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Here is the link to his videos. They are a bit pricey for the set, but each kata is it's own dvd and then a dvd for the basics (upper/lower body charts).
http://advinculavideos.com/products.html

About 2 years ago someone filmed Advincula performing all of Isshinryu's 8 katas (it was a blue dojo floor). It was for a private favor, but someone uploaded them onto youtube. When he found out he had them pulled and you can no longer have see them. I was fortunate and uploaded them off of youtube before they were removed. These might be the same clips.

Not too bad price-wise considering the limited audience for such a product, but I'll wait for serendipity to provide a glimpse at them to me. I actually would purchase 1 dvd if they sold them singly since I am not really interested in the entire system, and a viewing of Seisan or perhaps Seiunchin or Naihanchi would be sufficient to satisfy my idle curiosity.

Yes, it sounds like those Youtube videos you mentioned are the same ones I watched yesterday. I suppose for the last time.
 

punisher73

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Not too bad price-wise considering the limited audience for such a product, but I'll wait for serendipity to provide a glimpse at them to me. I actually would purchase 1 dvd if they sold them singly since I am not really interested in the entire system, and a viewing of Seisan or perhaps Seiunchin or Naihanchi would be sufficient to satisfy my idle curiosity.

Yes, it sounds like those Youtube videos you mentioned are the same ones I watched yesterday. I suppose for the last time.

At the time this clip was filmed, the instructor was a member of Advincula's group and taught the kata the way the Isshinkai does. It shows their bunkai. I think if you look at their channel they have Seiunchin posted also.


As a follow up, it would be interesting to see the similarities between the groups and their applications. The ones shown are the basic bunkai for the kata.
 
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dancingalone

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At the time this clip was filmed, the instructor was a member of Advincula's group and taught the kata the way the Isshinkai does. It shows their bunkai. I think if you look at their channel they have Seiunchin posted also.


As a follow up, it would be interesting to see the similarities between the groups and their applications. The ones shown are the basic bunkai for the kata.

No surprises in that clip. Pretty much what you would expect the basic bunkai to be to me.

Are there any more interesting interpretations on Youtube for Seisan or is it generally taught as "What you see is what you get"?
 
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Victor Smith

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I've thought on this for some time now. All of the seniors recorded kata are useful for their students.

If I had to pick someone who I thought embodied Shimabuku Tatsuo's directions it would be Uzeu Angi's 1967-1968 tapes. I don't follow Uzeu Sensei, but recognize at that time he was training under Shimabuku Tatuso and teaching for him. One would think this is direct source.

Uezu Angi
1967 1
1967 2
1968 Sunsu
1968 Tokeumine No Kun
1968 Shishi No Kun
1968 Chantan Yara No Sai
1968 Urashi no Kun
Empty hand vs bo
Bo vs Bo
Knife self Defense

Of course we never know the circumstances or reason behind the filming of any video.
Are they to be the ultimate expression, or a guide post along the way with more instruction to help move further.

In my case I've only recorded my students average performance mostly at sho-dan. Never their best dojo performance. They're only shared for discussion and only a quick view, not the hundreds of days and hours behind them.
 
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punisher73

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No surprises in that clip. Pretty much what you would expect the basic bunkai to be to me.

Are there any more interesting interpretations on Youtube for Seisan or is it generally taught as "What you see is what you get"?

Here are some different bunkai for the kata, not just seisan.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SenseiRadunz#p/u/10/AAUC43EdakM

If pressure points are your thing, here is a dvd series that has pressure point bunkai for all of the 15 basics and the empty hand katas. I picked up a copy off of ebay for a lot cheaper.

http://www.amazon.com/Kyusho-jitsu-...1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1282751353&sr=1-1-fkmr0
 

Victor Smith

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The first clip was Mark Radunz, one of Harrill Sensei's students.

The second clip is Chris Thomas who is in the George Dillman camp. Chris used to write articles about Isshinryu 30 years ago.
 

punisher73

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The first clip was Mark Radunz, one of Harrill Sensei's students.

The second clip is Chris Thomas who is in the George Dillman camp. Chris used to write articles about Isshinryu 30 years ago.

Looking at his credentials I thought he was with Dillman. Not sure of his Isshinryu lineage though. Do you know who he obtained his rank through? If I remember right, it is pretty high up there in the Dan ranks.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Looking at his credentials I thought he was with Dillman. Not sure of his Isshinryu lineage though. Do you know who he obtained his rank through? If I remember right, it is pretty high up there in the Dan ranks.

According to a bio on one of his books on Amazon, he's 7th Dan Isshin-Ryu. Perusing his old articles in Black Belt magazine (interested stuff), it would appear as though he traces his lineage through both Dillman and Harry Smith (another very interesting character).

For some fun reads, go to books.google.com and search for ["chris thomas" isshin-ryu].

http://books.google.com/books?id=o9...v=onepage&q="chris thomas" isshin-ryu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ht...u&pg=PA62#v=onepage&q="chris thomas" &f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=o9...v=onepage&q="chris thomas" isshin-ryu&f=false
 

Victor Smith

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I remember Chris Thomas's articles quite clearly. He was always trying but at the time I never felt they went far enough to make the full story. Then he moved into the Dillman camp. Never seen him move or work live, so I only have my impressions from long ago.
 

Bill Mattocks

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I remember Chris Thomas's articles quite clearly. He was always trying but at the time I never felt they went far enough to make the full story. Then he moved into the Dillman camp. Never seen him move or work live, so I only have my impressions from long ago.

What do you know about Harry Smith? I've read a lot about various claims made with reference to him and his life.
 

Victor Smith

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Harry Smith once belonged to my Pleasant Isshinryu discussion groups.
Without doubt he was one of the earliest USMC students of Shimabuku Tatsuo. He seems to have lead a complicated life in addition to being an early Isshinryu pioneer. I've never personally met him.

He's from the Pennslyvania area and among his early students is George Dillman who got his start in Isshinryu.
 
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rlp271

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Did Dillman promote Chris Thomas to 7th dan? I've never been absolutely positive, and I was told that his promotion under Dillman was pretty meteoric. Chris Thomas does have a few videos on Apple podcasts going over bunkai. I can't remember what exactly he was talking about, but I remember seeing them. I'll see if I can dig around and find them when I get home.
 

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