Real challenge fight

[Stylez777]

I understand what the purpose was in posting this on the internet. I get the fact the guy claimed to be the greatest wing chun person alive etc etc and someone challanged him and called him out and proved he was a liar and had no skills. Think everyone get's that to some degree.

The problem I have is this was not a fight. I am sorry if this offends someone but if you put on gloves and have rules it's not a fight it's a competition/sport. This is not to say people who do this don't train hard or that they can't fight. What I am saying is that those people are great at what they do. If I am on the street and I am attacked I am not worried about not being able to do something because it is against some rule. If I can immobilize my opponent in 1-2 moves I will do it and be on my merry way.

I have limited Wing Chun experience. I have only trained 1 month in Wing Chun (I won't go into what lineage and political things like that) and I haven't even scratched the surface. Yet when I hear or read what people think about Wing Chun and relating it to chain punching and how this won't work in a real fight or anyone who does MMA can stop that I laugh. I laugh because I know if I am in a "real" fight I might crush a guys knee and collapse his trachea or do some other nasty extremley painful move that you cannot do in an organzied competition or sport before i thought about chain punching. I'd stomp on a guys nuts if I had the chance too and it ment him not getting back up to attack me. Wing Chun is not all about "Chain Punching" and so many hatters always relate it to that it bothers me.

So the thing I feel was this topic is far misleading. This was not a real challenge fight. This was a organized competition between 2 men with a rule set that looked very poor and you could clearly see both mens lack of skill.

 

[Cyriacus]

Hi!

I understand what the purpose was in posting this on the internet. I get the fact the guy claimed to be the greatest wing chun person alive etc etc and someone challanged him and called him out and proved he was a liar and had no skills. Think everyone get's that to some degree.

Yep.

The problem I have is this was not a fight. I am sorry if this offends someone but if you put on gloves and have rules it's not a fight it's a competition/sport.

Unfortunately, its extremely poor quality competition/sport. Heres some vastly superior competition/sport majiggy.

This is not to say people who do this don't train hard or that they can't fight. What I am saying is that those people are great at what they do.

Yeah. Except that the stuff Theyre apparently great at, wasnt exactly present here. And it isnt an issue with having different Styles engage one another. Because even if They lose, He was using HIS System. It isnt exactly a difficult thing to do in the context of a not-fight.

If I am on the street and I am attacked I am not worried about not being able to do something because it is against some rule. If I can immobilize my opponent in 1-2 moves I will do it and be on my merry way.

Which wasnt a problem here either, since They were clearly allow to both Strike and Grapple.

I have limited Wing Chun experience. I have only trained 1 month in Wing Chun (I won't go into what lineage and political things like that) and I haven't even scratched the surface. Yet when I hear or read what people think about Wing Chun and relating it to chain punching and how this won't work in a real fight or anyone who does MMA can stop that I laugh. I laugh because I know if I am in a "real" fight I might crush a guys knee and collapse his trachea or do some other nasty extremley painful move that you cannot do in an organzied competition or sport before i thought about chain punching.

That doesnt make You indestructible, My Good Man. I can do all those things, and it doesnt mean Im impervious to being struck, or impervious to its effect. Nothing will make You indestructible, and an MMA Guy may well beat the snot out of You. I dont believe in "Its not the Style, its the Fighter", because the Style doesnt really factor in to how good someone is at harming someone else. It just helps, alot. Intense Training = Intense Fighting. And so forth. Additionally, under Adrenal Stress, You may not do a single thing Youve learnt. Now, Im not having a go at You Good Sir, but kindly refrain from overconfidence. On the other note; Chain Punching Works, if You can get into a position from which to use it. The same can be said about a slap to the face, or a knee to the ribs. It isnt going to not work. Anyone who says itll be ineffective is likely mistaken.

I'd stomp on a guys nuts if I had the chance too and it ment him not getting back up to attack me.

Also, Adrenalin. Youre more likely to be able to convince Your Limbs to do that, but He wont just die because You hurt His testicles. Since He had the aggression to attack You, hurting Him like that will just cause Him to be more aggressive. Probably alot more. Youd have to follow up, as the one blow alone likely wouldnt do the trick, unfortunately.

Wing Chun is not all about "Chain Punching" and so many hatters always relate it to that it bothers me.

Thats not why Theyre doing it. People who dislike Wing Chun: Bla bla bla chain punching. People who dislike Boxing: Bla bla bla kick his knee and hell just die. People who dislike Karate: Bla bla bla ill grab his leg and do a takedown and hell just die. People who dislike Taekwondo: Bla bla bla fancy kicks and nothing else. See where Im going with this? Its a target to jab at, not a legitimate criticism.

So the thing I feel was this topic is far misleading. This was not a real challenge fight. This was a organized competition between 2 men with a rule set that looked very poor and you could clearly see both mens lack of skill.

Correct!

Also, Welcome to MartialTalk, Good Sir!

 

[ETinCYQX]

Just to restate I don't know WC much but I didn't see much Muay Thai nor much skill there at all.

Cyracius we should start an MMA promotion. Grapply Slapfighting Championship

 

[Stylez777]

Cyriacus,

I appreicate the post but I want to clarify what I was trying to say because my point might have been missed a little.


I was not trying to say that I can take anyone out in 1-2 moves. I was trying to say that if I could do it like if the opportunity arrose that I was able to land 1 or 2 moves, kicks punches whatever to stop my attacker in his tracks so he cannot continue to attack me I would do so. What I was trying to explain is the difference between what I feel is a fight and a competition/sport. In a fight with rules you cannot do anything you want. You have to fight within the rules of the competition. Once a restriction is put in place that you cannot do X I feel it is not a real fight. If someone attacked me and had me mounted on the street and I know I had the ability to strike up at the throat area to free myself (I'm just making up a hypothetical here) I'd do it. In an MMA competition I couldn't do that so more than likely I'd lose. Again this is just a scenario I hope you understand my point. I wasn't trying to put down anyone who trains for competition or sport becaue I know how hard they train and I have an extreme amount of respect for what they do. I also didn't mean for it to sound like I was saying MMA fighters can't defend themselves in a real fight or anything of that nature, because that is simply untrue. I don't feel one style is better than another either. This video posted was not a real fight, I can;t even say it was a competition it was an abomination if you ask me.

I didn't mean to come off like I personally was over confident or anything of that nature because I most certainly am not that way. It also depends on the person as well, adrenaline affects people in many ways. If I have trained and was able to control my adrenal response and I knew how to react to the situation with instict and not thought of course I'd be far more dangerous. I wasn't trying to make a case by case point. Again all I was saying is that if I was fighting off an attacker it would be far different then fighting someone in a ring, cage, areana etc with rules or pads or gloves. Just because you put gloves on your hands and say you can throw punches and elbows doesn't mean you can strike anywhere you want. Also there is a huge difference in theory and application. I may know that I can strike the throat and possibly kill someone but actually being able to do it in the heat of the moment is another story. That is where intense training comes into play.

 

[Cyriacus]

Cyriacus,

I appreicate the post but I want to clarify what I was trying to say because my point might have been missed a little.

That, or I need to stop posting at 1am, when I might come across in ways I didnt intent to. That said, its currently 1:15am.

I was not trying to say that I can take anyone out in 1-2 moves. I was trying to say that if I could do it like if the opportunity arrose that I was able to land 1 or 2 moves, kicks punches whatever to stop my attacker in his tracks so he cannot continue to attack me I would do so.

Yes - Youd be going for a low number of high effect methods instead of a large number of low effect albeit more likely to connect methods. Thats fine.

What I was trying to explain is the difference between what I feel is a fight and a competition/sport. In a fight with rules you cannot do anything you want. You have to fight within the rules of the competition. Once a restriction is put in place that you cannot do X I feel it is not a real fight.

Of course - But most Fights end up being adrenalised bouts of either trying to pound Your foes skull, or trying to throw them around. Or something in between. Boxing, for example, is perhaps about as close as You can get to fistfighting, due to its very few rules, save the restriction of which Limbs You can throw around. As a result, its strikes are all incredibly simple, and most people can already do them, completely untrained. It cultivates that. The strength of Systems like Wing Chun, is similar. In Boxing, Youre trying to pin down Your Opponent, then end them. In Wing Chun, Youre trying to lock them up as close as possible, then end them. And the tools used in between, fit that spectrum. Both ways work.

If someone attacked me and had me mounted on the street and I know I had the ability to strike up at the throat area to free myself (I'm just making up a hypothetical here) I'd do it.

Yes, You would. This is the thing: 1; Your Head could have been slammed into Concrete, Gravel, Road, whathaveyou. Assuming that doesnt take You right out, Youd probably have time to execute such a strike before Your opponent can try and start with the Punching. 2; Youre on the ground and mounted. Things have already gone back. Chances are, You were struck down.

In an MMA competition I couldn't do that so more than likely I'd lose.

Well, Disqualified, but Yes.

Again this is just a scenario I hope you understand my point.

I do. Theres just alot more to it than that.

I wasn't trying to put down anyone who trains for competition or sport becaue I know how hard they train and I have an extreme amount of respect for what they do. I also didn't mean for it to sound like I was saying MMA fighters can't defend themselves in a real fight or anything of that nature, because that is simply untrue.

Thats not the vibe I got - I more got the vibe of "...but They wouldnt be able to do as well as [X System here]", which can happen quite alot.

I don't feel one style is better than another either. This video posted was not a real fight, I can;t even say it was a competition it was an abomination if you ask me.

Exactly - The type of abomination someone would use as an example of how supposedly bad Wing Chun is, followed by "bla bla bla find Me a video of Wing Chun winning a real fight like that", which You cant. Because of the sheer few Fights recorded, even fewer still are from Systems like Wing Chun. It was a glowing example of how some folks can deliberately overlook the nature of a System, to support Their choice to dislike it. Even if its just for no reason.

I didn't mean to come off like I personally was over confident or anything of that nature because I most certainly am not that way.

You kinda did, but this is the barrier of Text. It can be hard to tell exactly how someone means to say something. Its all good, Im inclined to believe You

It also depends on the person as well, adrenaline affects people in many ways.

Yes. It can cause some people to go berserk, on one side of the spectrum, and others to automatically flee, on the other.

If I have trained and was able to control my adrenal response and I knew how to react to the situation with instict and not thought of course I'd be far more dangerous.

That can also take many years of training, and even then, it only limits the effect.

I wasn't trying to make a case by case point. Again all I was saying is that if I was fighting off an attacker it would be far different then fighting someone in a ring, cage, areana etc with rules or pads or gloves.

And all I was saying, is that just as You arent limited by the Rules of Competition in a Street Fight, They arent either.

Just because you put gloves on your hands and say you can throw punches and elbows doesn't mean you can strike anywhere you want. Also there is a huge difference in theory and application. I may know that I can strike the throat and possibly kill someone but actually being able to do it in the heat of the moment is another story. That is where intense training comes into play.

Intense Training = Intense Fighting. A sound conclusion, Good Sir!

Just My Contribution.

Cyracius we should start an MMA promotion. Grapply Slapfighting Championship

We may need to make it Semi-Contact but. That stuffs dangerous, man.

He totally TKO'd that dude, Man. Wed need to have them put on big puffy palm pads and stuff, too!

 

[Stylez777]

Cyriacus,

Excellent points and glad we sorta agree on most things. one thing you said "Boxing, for example, is perhaps about as close as You can get to fistfighting, due to its very few rules, save the restriction of which Limbs You can throw around. As a result, its strikes are all incredibly simple, and most people can already do them, completely untrained. It cultivates that. The strength of Systems like Wing Chun, is similar. In Boxing, Youre trying to pin down Your Opponent, then end them. In Wing Chun, Youre trying to lock them up as close as possible, then end them. And the tools used in between, fit that spectrum. Both ways work." Myself personally I don't clasify fights as fistfights or grappling fights etc etc. A fight is a fight to me, you use whatever you have to use to win.

An example I can think of (this is not braging so please don't take it that way) 2 years ago I was outside of a bar talking with a few friends. One thing led to another inside the bar with some drunk guy and another drunk guy and a girl. As I am standing outside the 1 drunk guy comes behind me and punches me in the head thinking I was the guy who hit on his girlfriend (I know this because he was yelling at me about it after he hit me). He stepped back and put his hands up egging me to fight him (lot of curse words flying around) he was bigger than me (I am 6'2" 225) and drunk. I figured out in my head in a nano second that I couldn't win this fight with throwing hands. I ripped off a near by car antenna and pretty buch beat him to the gorund with it until he didn't want to get up. I won't lie I was scared, I was affraid if I fought him he woudl hurt me pretty bad, so I did what I had to do. Afterwards I heard someone say "wow that wasn't really a fair fight at all..." I was going to reply but I left out of fear of someone else attacking me or being arrested for assualt.

Point being what style did I use? no style. at the time I had trained already in Karate, Boxing and was doing MMA (BJJ and Muay Thai) at the time. I didn't use any of it.
I just reacted fast and won. (believe me also there were quite a few times I reacted fast and lost). So I agree 1,000% with you that those my style is better thatn your style is bs. No 1 style is better than another when it comes to application. Though training intensely in whatever you choose will teach your body to react without the thought process which I guess is what every Martial Artists strives for.

 

[Cyriacus]

Cyriacus,

Excellent points and glad we sorta agree on most things. one thing you said "Boxing, for example, is perhaps about as close as You can get to fistfighting, due to its very few rules, save the restriction of which Limbs You can throw around. As a result, its strikes are all incredibly simple, and most people can already do them, completely untrained. It cultivates that. The strength of Systems like Wing Chun, is similar. In Boxing, Youre trying to pin down Your Opponent, then end them. In Wing Chun, Youre trying to lock them up as close as possible, then end them. And the tools used in between, fit that spectrum. Both ways work." Myself personally I don't clasify fights as fistfights or grappling fights etc etc. A fight is a fight to me, you use whatever you have to use to win.

An example I can think of (this is not braging so please don't take it that way) 2 years ago I was outside of a bar talking with a few friends. One thing led to another inside the bar with some drunk guy and another drunk guy and a girl. As I am standing outside the 1 drunk guy comes behind me and punches me in the head thinking I was the guy who hit on his girlfriend (I know this because he was yelling at me about it after he hit me). He stepped back and put his hands up egging me to fight him (lot of curse words flying around) he was bigger than me (I am 6'2" 225) and drunk. I figured out in my head in a nano second that I couldn't win this fight with throwing hands. I ripped off a near by car antenna and pretty buch beat him to the gorund with it until he didn't want to get up. I won't lie I was scared, I was affraid if I fought him he woudl hurt me pretty bad, so I did what I had to do. Afterwards I heard someone say "wow that wasn't really a fair fight at all..." I was going to reply but I left out of fear of someone else attacking me or being arrested for assualt.

Point being what style did I use? no style. at the time I had trained already in Karate, Boxing and was doing MMA (BJJ and Muay Thai) at the time. I didn't use any of it.
I just reacted fast and won. (believe me also there were quite a few times I reacted fast and lost). So I agree 1,000% with you that those my style is better thatn your style is bs. No 1 style is better than another when it comes to application. Though training intensely in whatever you choose will teach your body to react without the thought process which I guess is what every Martial Artists strives for.

Of course a fight is where You do what You have to to win - But Boxing has next to no rules. You can punch peoples throats, for instance.

Thats a justified use of force. It isnt bragging if its true, of course
And it was likely a good call, since He was intoxicated, and likely less privy to normal blunt forced trauma.

And We righteously agree on the end, Good Sir!

 

[grumpywolfman]

In brief the story goes like this. The smaller stockier guy has been badmouthing all wing chun lineages proclaiming himself the number one italian exponent of William Cheung. and claims he ttrains 8 hours a day for the past 20 years.... he's been going on like this for about 3 years also claiming he had already defeated notable wing chun wing tsun ving tsun masters etc etc etc...
also he claimed he beat up and he could take on MMA fighters and in this case he claimed that the opponent he fought (if we would like to call it a fight) he would defeat him in 5 seconds with one hand... personally whether they were prepared or not I feel he got his just desserts. If there's soemthing I hate is showoffs, false prophets, invincible masters that in the end his aim was to gain money and pubblicity lying to the public through misuse of the internet....ok maybe Im a 6 year old but this is how I feel and so do many others

I think this was the clip that you may have been looking for?