Re-Certification Tests – Good or Bad?

[TigerWoman]

Last year, our master instituted recertification tests for all black belts. We are required to test every 6 months. Mostly this is for the black belts who do not try to work on stuff, do not attend many classes, etc. This test for us includes forms- poomse (Taekwondo), pushups, punches, kicks, slow motion kicks, self defense, sparring, a breaking contest to "wow" the master, even grading on integrity etc. What is your experience with this and is it working?

 

[terryl965]

Tigerwoman I think it's abad thing was you are certified by AAU USTU and the Kukkiwon no one can take that from you becouse of politics. in my opion it is a way to get more money from his pupils, by the way does he charge you for this servicE
God Bless America

 

[loki09789]

Good practice in theory, in educational circles it is usually termed an external motivator, sort of like "mandatory" meetings because they make it part of the pay day schedule.

Tough thing is communicating the positive intentions and setting it up so that it is used constructively. Maybe instead of just 'retesting' every six months on the same old same old, he could get more enthusiasm by offering 'black belt' instructor training which would encompass reviewing and evaluating techniques and practices from new perspectives along with establishing professionalism/integrity training for BB.

 

[TigerWoman]

Good practice in theory, in educational circles it is usually termed an external motivator, sort of like "mandatory" meetings because they make it part of the pay day schedule.

Tough thing is communicating the positive intentions and setting it up so that it is used constructively. Maybe instead of just 'retesting' every six months on the same old same old, he could get more enthusiasm by offering 'black belt' instructor training which would encompass reviewing and evaluating techniques and practices from new perspectives along with establishing professionalism/integrity training for BB.

He tried a black belt class also making it mandatory. We tediously went over forms one call/move at a time, correcting each person as we went.
Practically lost everyone. It got down to me, a zealous 13 year old and another soon to be 2nd deg. Personally I got a few details out of it but not much more than another exercise class.

This new idea is not reaching the people who don't come to class or work on their requirements - just the one's who are presently teaching for him.

In reply to Terry.
No he is not charging us an additional fee. One good thing

 

[terryl965]

well maybe since you are trying to make it work, let him know the positive aspects of the additioal training and also let him know about the negatives as well

 

[Danjo]

We do not re-certify high school diplomas, BA degrees or any other college degree. Once they are earned, they are earned for life. Some continue their education, others do not. Nevertheless, they do not take back the degree. However, if one is a public school teacher, they have to re-certify their teacher's credential every five years (in California) and participate in "professional development" or else they will not be allowed to continue as a teacher. I have no problem with requiring instructors to re-certify their instructor's certificate (if they have one), but they should leave the black belt alone.

 

[loki09789]

We do not re-certify high school diplomas, BA degrees or any other college degree. Once they are earned, they are earned for life. Some continue their education, others do not. Nevertheless, they do not take back the degree. However, if one is a public school teacher, they have to re-certify their teacher's credential every five years (in California) and participate in "professional development" or else they will not be allowed to continue as a teacher. I have no problem with requiring instructors to re-certify their instructor's certificate (if they have one), but they should leave the black belt alone.

True, but since most BB are also instructors, we do have 7 year recerts in NYS (not a fan of the pain aspect of it, but respect the spirit of it), and there is regular 'in service' training in most professional fields of some kind. Nothing wrong with it as long as it is used beneficially and with the right intent. This sounds like a case of "oh yeah, and your little dog toto too!" when it should be set up as a reward for those who show the desire to improve themselves with attendance and instructing others.

Consider this as well, in the military units are regularly 'recerted' for readiness through a series of inspections, exercises and simulated crisis responses/call ups. If part of the BB requirements is to maintain a state of readiness, and that state of readiness is clearly defined, I see no problem with it.

I would make recert manditory if the person had left for a significant amount of time (six months or more) and was going to be possibly instructing others by virtue of his/her rank. Of course the recert would be after a reasonable refresher period to ensure fitness and training time.

The rank papering process is just the beginning of the next phase. Any form of formal re-evaluation can be a good thing. Now, the part that can make the practice in this case bad is the consequence if you don't pass the recert. What can he ultimately do?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Last year, our master instituted recertification tests for all black belts. We are required to test every 6 months. Mostly this is for the black belts who do not try to work on stuff, do not attend many classes, etc. This test for us includes forms- poomse (Taekwondo), pushups, punches, kicks, slow motion kicks, self defense, sparring, a breaking contest to "wow" the master, even grading on integrity etc. What is your experience with this and is it working?

This practice reeks of control freak. When these guys open their own school someday this guy can pop up and say that he had retracted their Black belts a long time ago. Personality conflicts or what your intructor consideres a poor choice of action (such as switching styles) could also result in a retraction. If he wants to maintain quality he needs to let students spend more time in belt before promotion. Its that simple. Judging from your later posts we are talking about a bunch of kids here; so, I suggest your instructor switch to a junior BlackBelt program. Sheeesh!!!!
Sean

 

[kenpo12]

Last year, our master instituted recertification tests for all black belts. We are required to test every 6 months. Mostly this is for the black belts who do not try to work on stuff, do not attend many classes, etc. This test for us includes forms- poomse (Taekwondo), pushups, punches, kicks, slow motion kicks, self defense, sparring, a breaking contest to "wow" the master, even grading on integrity etc. What is your experience with this and is it working?

I always figured that was why there are multiple degrees of black belt. Those who chose to do the minimum stay at first degree and those who chose to move on do so. What if someone has to take a brake from training for a year? They get their black belt revoked? I've seen alot of people who took one, two, or three plus year brakes from training for whatever reason ie school, personal issues, work etc. I've seen many of those same people come back and within a month or two be back to the same proficency they were at when they left and maybe test for the next degree within a year.

It seems to me that if someone is teaching in the studio everyday as a black belt they should already know their material. If someone is a blackbelt and doesn't teach often but attends classes often they would know the material. If someone is a blackbelt and doesn't fit into either of the previously mentioned categories then they need to do some brushing up because they won't be able to keep up with class if they aren't "up to snuff".

I think TOD hit it on the head with the control freak thing.

 

[Ping898]

I know my old school (I've since moved out of state) used to have Black Belt re-cert's every year. You didn't get charged for them and you couldn't loose your belt, cause you had already earned it, but I know it could delay your promotion to 2nd or 3rd Dan etc because if you failed you would stop getting new material for at least the next 6 mon or so until you could show a proficency for all the material you were supposed to know. There was some physical aspect to the test too, but not much more than we would do in an average class. I personally liked it. Like all but 1 or 2 of the black belts were instructors so it helped use make sure we were all teaching the same thing and forced you to make sure you didn't forget the stuff you didn't necessarily practice in class.

That said, I agree that the process didn't necessarily reach those it who disappeared with no word. People taking breaks were still allowed back in with no penalty if we knew about them. Also I think if you failed the re-cert the school didn't pay your next year's membership fee to the WKKA, which my school was associated with.

 

[MJS]

Last year, our master instituted recertification tests for all black belts. We are required to test every 6 months. Mostly this is for the black belts who do not try to work on stuff, do not attend many classes, etc. This test for us includes forms- poomse (Taekwondo), pushups, punches, kicks, slow motion kicks, self defense, sparring, a breaking contest to "wow" the master, even grading on integrity etc. What is your experience with this and is it working?

Question. What is the purpose of this class? Is it to make sure that all of the BB are up to speed on the material or is there a chance that the BB could lose their rank? If its simply a class to make sure that the material is up to speed, then IMO, those classes are fine. Any time you have a school with a large group of instructors, its important to make sure that everyone is teaching the material to the students in the same way. In addition, its also a chance for all of the BB to get together and have a good, hard workout!

Once you earn your rank, its yours! Period!! Its something that you earned and nobody can take it away from you.

Mike

 

[TigerWoman]

This practice reeks of control freak. When these guys open their own school someday this guy can pop up and say that he had retracted their Black belts a long time ago. Personality conflicts or what your intructor consideres a poor choice of action (such as switching styles) could also result in a retraction. If he wants to maintain quality he needs to let students spend more time in belt before promotion. Its that simple. Judging from your later posts we are talking about a bunch of kids here; so, I suggest your instructor switch to a junior BlackBelt program. Sheeesh!!!!
Sean

You got some of it right with the control and the quality. I see some getting black belts alot easier than I did. While I was held to a palm strike through a brick standard, a favorite was allowed an easier elbow strike through 3 boards. I'm the oldest woman so I forged the way as they say. We are mostly 40 something black belts with a few juniors.

 

[MJS]

You got some of it right with the control and the quality. I see some getting black belts alot easier than I did. While I was held to a palm strike through a brick standard, a favorite was allowed an easier elbow strike through 3 boards. I'm the oldest woman so I forged the way as they say. We are mostly 40 something black belts with a few juniors.

Yup, after reading this statement, I agree that the Inst. does sound controlling and favors certain students. If I was in this situation, I'd leave that school and find another one.

Mike

 

[TigerWoman]

Question. What is the purpose of this class? Is it to make sure that all of the BB are up to speed on the material or is there a chance that the BB could lose their rank? If its simply a class to make sure that the material is up to speed, then IMO, those classes are fine. Any time you have a school with a large group of instructors, its important to make sure that everyone is teaching the material to the students in the same way. In addition, its also a chance for all of the BB to get together and have a good, hard workout!

Once you earn your rank, its yours! Period!! Its something that you earned and nobody can take it away from you.

Mike

How do you just quote a part of these lines? Well, the purpose, I believe, is to get me out of my seniority as highest level woman black belt. I haven't even passed my second dan test from last year but am required to do ANOTHER test to show WHAT? I'm 54 going on 55, its not on my side to keep having to break to wow him, in contest with big guy's who can headbutt cement. I hope I don't sound boastful, its not my intention, but I remember and do the forms well. I practice and come to class 3 times more than anyone there. Its a political move, because we have had a disagreement over an issue of integrity. Yes he has threatened to take anyone's belt who does not participate. I have yet to participate - May.

 

[MJS]

How do you just quote a part of these lines? Well, the purpose, I believe, is to get me out of my seniority as highest level woman black belt. I haven't even passed my second dan test from last year but am required to do ANOTHER test to show WHAT? I'm 54 going on 55, its not on my side to keep having to break to wow him, in contest with big guy's who can headbutt cement. I hope I don't sound boastful, its not my intention, but I remember and do the forms well. I practice and come to class 3 times more than anyone there. Its a political move, because we have had a disagreement over an issue of integrity. Yes he has threatened to take anyone's belt who does not participate. I have yet to participate - May.

To quote parts of postings. put the words quote in brackets []....at the end of what you're trying to quote put a / in front of the word quote.

Yes, after reading your last post, I would definately find another instructor. This guy seems VERY controlling! It also seems that he has something against you, due to the fact that hes holding you back from testing...that is not right. And you should not be required to break anything. I know that is a big part of TKD, but IMO, I really dont see the point to it.

 

[TigerWoman]

Oh, I have left out out a lot. The integrity issue is not mine. I have one board to break for 2nd dan. I have fought a VERY uphill battle to get it.
I taught myself the last three forms in the 20 that I needed to know. I practiced the breaking technique on my own without ANY of his help. I got no encouragement just two upgrades on a break - harder. My 17 yr. daughter was required to do knife hand through a brick too. She was going to test before me before going to college but that upgrade pretty much nixed her. I have also had flung in my face all the virtues of his "favorite" because she refused to know what the issue was really about - "if I don't know anything then it can't affect me". I have had to say humility, humility, humility and keep quiet. I very much want that stripe. And THEN, I may leave. But I will not let ANYONE TAKE which is MINE. I deserve it and I will accomplish it. I will not go down politically. --TigerWoman

 

[MJS]

You seem to have a very good attitude and that is very important IMO!!! However, we are all human and we all have feelings, though I'm starting to have doubts about the feelings of your inst. Nobody should have to be disrespected! I dont blame you at all for wanting that stripe, and by all means go for it and give it 100%. But if you feel that you'd get better training elsewhere, then please dont let anyone talk you into staying someplace where you wont be happy.

Mike

 

[TigerWoman]

Yes, well, I have been breaking 8+ boards a day x 3 times a week. This has been going on 3 months now. I broke from April -Aug. last year then when on South Beach, lost 30 lbs. Lost muscle, regained it, lost training, regained it So all those boards are getting expensive!
I'm not complaining now, but a statement of fact, my bad knee is unstable, coming down on it for a double jump and lately is getting worse. That's after a hamstring injury from doing too many ax, crescent kicks one day. Ah the perils of age - not twenty something anymore. I don't know any 50 yr. old guys in TKD either. One I was always testing with had a health problem so he got an easier black belt test and left.
So my instructor is a chauvinist, shows favoritism, likes control, is not open-minded (his way or the hi-way) won't ask me to teach (doesn't stop me), doesn't encourage me, doesn't TEACH. Why would I stay?

 

[MJS]

Well, all the more reason to leave that school. You sound like you're really into the arts, and that is definately a very good thing. Any physical activity is better than nothing, and you're also learning skills to defend yourself.

I cant stress enough though, that if you're not happy with something, stop doing it!!

Mike

 

[Ceicei]

So my instructor is a chauvinist, shows favoritism, likes control, is not open-minded (his way or the hi-way) won't ask me to teach (doesn't stop me), doesn't encourage me, doesn't TEACH. Why would I stay?

Why would you? What are the pros for staying?

- Ceicei