Pyung Ahn Cho Dan - Videos

[Makalakumu]

This thread is dedicated to Pyung Ahn Cho Dan Hyung. I would like to discuss applications of this form, its origins, and its other varients. Take a look at the video and lets pick it apart.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Lynne]

HI upnorthkyosa,

Since I'm learning this form, I wanted to see how you perform it. Rats - it's different from the way I've been taught. At the beginning, when you turn 180, I notice you do a circular movement with your arm (strike?) and then what looks like a kap kwan kon kyuk. In ours, we bring our foot back a bit, on the toes, and we bring our elbow up and then punch at the floor (a hammer strike of some kind - to the testes I think). Instead of the backfist, we bring our forward foot next to our back foot in a perpendicular stance, both feet flat, both legs straight, and bring our arm out in what looks very similar to an inside/outside block. We flip it over to aim and then proceed with the rest of the form as you demonstrated.

Watching you perform the Hadon Sudo Makees is very helpful to me as far as how to prepare with the legs and I noticed that you twisted just a little at the waist.

I hope this form becomes second nature by October 6 (competition). I'm just a little slow with the Hadon Sudo Makees but I'm getting there.

I'm very interested in the applications. Right now, I'm at a loss for terminology though.

 

[Makalakumu]

That's interesting. The variation in how you perform it sounds quite different then what we practice. I wonder where it came from?

 

[terryl965]

You know over the years there have been sso many variations of forms period. It is a wonder that we have some similarity at all, since they all needed to put there own stamp on them.

 

[Makalakumu]

You know over the years there have been sso many variations of forms period. It is a wonder that we have some similarity at all, since they all needed to put there own stamp on them.

So true. But the interesting thing is that as soon as you start asking questions, interesting things start happening. The lineage of such changes is often very surprising and is always enlightening. My advice is that as soon as you start to see differences like this, start asking questions. Probe deeper. This is part of the journey.

 

[terryl965]

So true. But the interesting thing is that as soon as you start asking questions, interesting things start happening. The lineage of such changes is often very surprising and is always enlightening. My advice is that as soon as you start to see differences like this, start asking questions. Probe deeper. This is part of the journey.

I agree but over the years all you really get is well this is what my Master says so it is the truth. Not one single person is willing to accept that maybe just maybe each and every single individual has made small changes that over the year have really made the differences.

 

[Lynne]

That's interesting. The variation in how you perform it sounds quite different then what we practice. I wonder where it came from?

I'll see what I can find out. Someone had posted a clip here at Martial Arts a few years ago. His execution of it was very similar to what I've been taught, except he didn't do the downward hammer strike after the low block; he went from the low block right into the upper hammer strike/block (the move that looks very similar to an ahnesopakoro - the arm is at approx. 45 degrees but the right heel slides into the side of the left foot).

 

[JWLuiza]

I'll see what I can find out. Someone had posted a clip here at Martial Arts a few years ago. His execution of it was very similar to what I've been taught, except he didn't do the downward hammer strike after the low block; he went from the low block right into the upper hammer strike/block (the move that looks very similar to an ahnesopakoro - the arm is at approx. 45 degrees but the right heel slides into the side of the left foot).

One version I was taught included a wrist escape instead of a low hammer block before the hammer fist.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

One version I was taught included a wrist escape instead of a low hammer block before the hammer fist.

That's the version I know, actually.

 

[JWLuiza]

That's the version I know, actually.

That would make sense.... I learned it from one of my instructors who is learning from a VERY old school MDK guy. His Dan Bon is 1298. That is CRAZY old school

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

That would make sense.... I learned it from one of my instructors who is learning from a VERY old school MDK guy. His Dan Bon is 1298. That is CRAZY old school

It's also pretty useful, if you learn to apply it in various situations. Someone grabs for your wrist, you snap it out and counter. It's part of the whole defense-strike philosophy of TSD.

 

[MBuzzy]

This is actually pretty similar to how we perform it.

The one major difference is the third move. Following the low block, we rotate our wrist 90 degrees so that your thumb is up and you are in Sa Ko Rip Jaseh, then pull back to your shoulder and execute a low backfist to the same place as your low block was. Following that, the downward hammerfist (with feet pulling together).

To me, this seems like an escape (with the rotation), then knocking the attacker's hand away with the backfist, then a hammerstrike to the head, neck, collarbone, etc.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Well I had some spare time after class tonight, when everybody else had left, so I recorded a halfway decent version of pyung ahn cho dan...this was after I'd already gone through class.
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~jsamuel1/toramitsu/pyungahnchodan.wmv - high quality
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~jsamuel1/toramitsu/pyungahnchodan_sm.wmv - lower quality (still 1MB)

Now...if you want to see what else I did...
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~jsamuel1/toramitsu/bored.wmv

I may upload this last video to youtube, but the other ones I will probably not.

BIG EDIT: I realize only just now I made a mistake...the first move down the middle (before the 3 high blocks) should be low block to mid single knife-hand block, not just low block...argh, well guess I'll have to redo it one more time. It's like as soon as I get in front of a camera I can't help but make stupid mistakes.

 

[Lynne]

Thanks for sharing those, JT. Yes, your Pyung Ahn Cho Dan is different from ours. I like your execution, the forceful punches and blocks. I noticed your preparation, too, how you bring your knee up. I've never seen anyone at our school do that. We do exaggerate the foot preparation though. Some nice kicks in the "bored" video!

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Thanks for sharing those, JT. Yes, your Pyung Ahn Cho Dan is different from ours. I like your execution, the forceful punches and blocks. I noticed your preparation, too, how you bring your knee up. I've never seen anyone at our school do that. We do exaggerate the foot preparation though. Some nice kicks in the "bored" video!

C.S. Kim schools emphasize bringing the knee up to the chest, whether stepping, kicking, or whatever. You drag your feet, you hold yourself back and open yourself up to tripping/being tripped. Palche so is a notable exception, but that's another story. But especially when going into choon bee jase, we bring up our knees.

And thanks. The spinning jump round kick is one of my signature moves, even if it isn't so effective in actual combat.

 

[Makalakumu]

http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~jsamuel1/toramitsu/pyungahnchodan.wmv

That is a very different way of moving then I'm used to seeing. I can see some uses for the high stepping stance work, but I much prefer the more natural sweeping stance. I think it lets me get more hip rotation. Also, I think that it makes transitioning from one move to the other in a form easier.

I like how you are doing your high blocks. With your arm at that particular angle, you are going to be far more successful in blocking a technique or striking someone. This also happens to be a more okinawan way of doing the high block. In the MDK, most people angle their arm more horizontally.

Anyways, its great to see our hyungs through the eyes of a different organization. I think that we can learn a lot about our own respective arts this way.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

That is a very different way of moving then I'm used to seeing. I can see some uses for the high stepping stance work, but I much prefer the more natural sweeping stance. I think it lets me get more hip rotation. Also, I think that it makes transitioning from one move to the other in a form easier.

I like how you are doing your high blocks. With your arm at that particular angle, you are going to be far more successful in blocking a technique or striking someone. This also happens to be a more okinawan way of doing the high block. In the MDK, most people angle their arm more horizontally.

Anyways, its great to see our hyungs through the eyes of a different organization. I think that we can learn a lot about our own respective arts this way.

I actually get less leg-tangled if I pick my knees up as I walk, so there's one point of difference between us. It also allows you to work on balance, as well as landing hand and foot at the same time. That, and switch-ups with kicks are available if you pick up your knee.

People who have their arms horizontal for a high block probably also have their arms resting on or at least touching their heads; that's a bad idea for a block. Your blocking-arm fist should be just above the opposite-side ear, and well enough above the head that you're actually blocking something away - that entails having an angle to your arm, unless you have unnaturally long arms.

Anyway, thanks for not pounding me on the glaring mistake I mentioned; gotta stop thinking about the camera and let my body do what it knows.

 

[Lynne]

C.S. Kim schools emphasize bringing the knee up to the chest, whether stepping, kicking, or whatever. You drag your feet, you hold yourself back and open yourself up to tripping/being tripped. Palche so is a notable exception, but that's another story. But especially when going into choon bee jase, we bring up our knees.

And thanks. The spinning jump round kick is one of my signature moves, even if it isn't so effective in actual combat.

I wish I knew the spinning jump round kick or the spinning back kick so I could use them in the sparring competition. I'm kind of limited, you know.

That's an interesting note about why you bring the knee up. Do you see anyone else practicing that outside of C. S. Kim schools?

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

I wish I knew the spinning jump round kick or the spinning back kick so I could use them in the sparring competition. I'm kind of limited, you know.

That's an interesting note about why you bring the knee up. Do you see anyone else practicing that outside of C. S. Kim schools?

It might just be an ITF thing, I dunno. I thought it was standard, until you people mentioned it.