Putting another person before your self?

[Jenna]

In what circumstances would you put the safety or physical integrity of another person before your own.. specially if you were quite certain you will bear the damage that would otherwise befall them?

Is it only a reflexive, in-the-moment action? If you thought about it you would react differently?? obrigada J

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Obviously I put my family before myself. I have a tendency to stand up for people who are being bullied, even those whom I do not know. That doesn't mean I am a hero or that I go around looking to right wrongs or stand up for justice. I have no deathwish.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

I've rescued people from a burning jet before, so I know I'm willing to risk myself to help people in serious need of help.
But I also had an ex-girlfriend (briefly) who would have me take her to bars, and then start causing trouble, expecting me to back her up. That's why she quickly became an "ex". I don't know if that's what got her tingly or not, but it definitely wasn't working for me.
I'll help those who seem to deserve rescuing, but not those going out of their way to do something stupid.

 

[Buka]

As an old fool who's suffered from the Lone Ranger Complex since a young age, I'm trying to think of a circumstance where I wouldn't. Sure helped in Law Enforcement, didn't help much in dealings with family, though.

 

[Jenna]

@Bill Mattocks Thank you for your input! Can you say please, were this situation to occur where you intercede or put your self in harm's way before your family, would it be instinctive or would it be with rational thought or would it likely be some where in between? I am interested to know like if you thought about consequence - like you have indeed no deathwish - before acting would you still act or act the same way? Welcome your thoughts..

@GiYu - Todd, hey there.. you ditched your gf eh? Is like you are better off now, right? Tell me would you.. how do you know if some one deserve rescuing? What makes obvious that your help is required, like what criteria might you apply or again is it not like that.. is it a spur-of-the-moment-only kind of situation?? What do you think??

@Buka, Hello Mr O, I am very much interested in how you see this from the other point of view.. what would you say was the reason more people do not hold a similar view to yours, like "why wouldnt I"? Appreciate your wisdom thank you..

 

[donald1]

Im not going to die trying or get seriously injured. I like helping people though so I probably will. Preferably if I know ill be fine.

As for the second question I assume yes and no. Yes, some people act(note: obviously that dosn't mean all but potentially some)
As for the long term one I assume most of the people not "in the moment" are either confident or just really believe its the right thing (probably both).

 

[Whitespace]

I tend to stand up to bullies when the kid being bullied does not stand up for himself. Most of the time it gets resolved without and punches being thrown and even if a punch is thrown I take the person down with the least amount of danger to them as possible while also protecting myself. Now that is quite a different situation than a guy or a couple of guys trying to jump me in the halls or on the street. then I would personally use as much force as needed to take them down and get myself out of that situation. I think the true answer is based upon you.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

@Bill Mattocks Thank you for your input! Can you say please, were this situation to occur where you intercede or put your self in harm's way before your family, would it be instinctive or would it be with rational thought or would it likely be some where in between? I am interested to know like if you thought about consequence - like you have indeed no deathwish - before acting would you still act or act the same way? Welcome your thoughts..

Don't really know. It would be speculation on my part. In situations in my youth when I went into harm's way intentionally, it was often while gritting my teeth, somewhat aware of the risk, but depending upon my (foolish) belief in my own immortality to see me through. Fortunately, I lived. Occasionally, I paid a price for my choices. Sometimes, it was a mistake in hindsight for me to have gotten involved.

It may make a difference that my history after high school was one of public service, in the military and civilian law enforcement for a time. It was my job to do things which would otherwise be considered foolhardy or risky or both. I can also say that there have been times in my past when I have not taken action and in hindsight I believe I should have, and I am ashamed by those memories.

 

[Rich Parsons]

In what circumstances would you put the safety or physical integrity of another person before your own.. specially if you were quite certain you will bear the damage that would otherwise befall them?

I have done it in the past for work. And I do it for people I am out with. I did have to tell a group of guys one night, that I was there for the Bachelor only and that I would not have the backs of anyone else. As they had shown in the past they were stupid and did stuff to cause problems. I would not have been out with them except for the Bachelor party. In the end some got punched and or kicked out of bars we were at, but the bachelor only got drunk - did not get sick and was able to be fun and not stupid.

I have as Bill mentioned stopped bullies from harassing people I did not know nor had I ever met. Not looking for it, just when it turns from verbal to physical and they obviously are limping with a brace or unable to defend themselves, I step in and say it might be better for all to move along as others have already called the police. De-escalation so to say. Does it always work? no.

I put people I walk with in positions that makes them safer when there are higher than normal (accidental ) threats available.

Is it only a reflexive, in-the-moment action? If you thought about it you would react differently?? obrigada J

I do it reflexively and instinctual by nature, yet, it is also cognitive while I am doing it.
I was once the point man of a group of five guys that three car loads of people (15 in total) . At that time some in the group had much more experience in that position but given our logistics and they speed it unfolded I was the one upfront and the one to take the brunt. I made a plan. I executed the plan. I knocked one over in front of me who pumping himself up to hit me, and I did it so he would fall into others. they went down like Dominoes. Not all, but enough. So I stepped and jumped over a few of them ran to the front of the build where I had the keys for it, and I opened the door without disengaging the alarm. It would call the police if not disabled in 60 seconds. I hoped the audible alarm and my bluff that it was an immediate call and pointing to the police station would make them decide to leave. The Police station was on the other side of a swamp / pond from our business. And it was about 2 miles by road to get from one to the other. I ran back and told them the police were called with the alarm and they had 60 second response time. They shoved and ran to their cars and left.

The point is that I had separated myself. 5 guys could have staid to make it 5 on 4 for the rest of my friends / co workers, and then the 10 take me out. I did it instinctively, yet the plan idea came to my mind. So there was some thought involved. And I realized I might get hurt. Yet I thought it was best for the long term of the fight to get some support their eventually versus them driving by and finding our unconscious or dead bodies in the parking lot.

So yes

 

[oftheherd1]

Before I really even knew anything about martial arts, I used to side with people who were being bullied, or underdogs. I didn't want to fight really, so I developed pretty good tongue-fu. Later, after I joined the military and got into police work, duty often required showing a willingness to engage physically, and meanly, as well. There were a few times then when I wasn't sure I would survive. Thank God I did.

The last time I can remember anything like that was with my wife. We had been sold some bad food, she intended only to let the owner know and get something else to eat. The owner must have been having a real bad day. Unfortunately, an argument ensued and escalated to the point I thought he was going to have a really bad day. When my wife realized I was positioning myself to intercept any physical attack from him, she disengaged from the conversation and walked away. Thankfully.

I found another way to show my displeasure to him, which then involved some other restaurant owners having problems which were not directly attributable to me, but made them rather more unhappy with him. It cost all of them money to fix. I don't think he was very popular for a while. He is a lot more friendly now; we talk, he smiles more. Win/win all around I guess.

Fortunately, unlike some of the others above, I rarely have had to fight, or put my life or limbs in apparent danger. I still do tongue-fu pretty well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

In what circumstances would you put the safety or physical integrity of another person before your own.. specially if you were quite certain you will bear the damage that would otherwise befall them?

Is it only a reflexive, in-the-moment action? If you thought about it you would react differently?? obrigada J

Once in Beijing where I resigned myself to the fact that the best I cold do was slow the guy down that was following us, but at least my wife, her friend and her friend's daughter would get away...luckily I my assessment of the situation was quite wrong for Beijing, right for NYC, but not for Beijing.

Another time in a store when an older gentleman tried to go up the escalator with his wife who was in a wheel chair. I jump forward to the escalator and caught him to prevent the fall.

And many other times during my career in security for the state and for a couple Hospitals

 

[Buka]

[, Hello Mr O, I am very much interested in how you see this from the other point of view.. what would you say was the reason more people do not hold a similar view to yours, like "why wouldnt I"? Appreciate your wisdom thank you..

Hi Miss Jenna.
I don't have much wisdom to offer, and can't really speak for why others do or do not do things. It's kind of like "why do you like the color blue and BLT club sandwiches?" I dunno', I just really do. But maybe because...

I started life in the projects. In the projects (at least the one I was in) you didn't get picked on for a reason. People that picked on kids picked on every kid, people that didn't, didn't. When I moved to the suburbs it was different. You would get picked on if you were a different nationality (which I was) if you looked different, (which I did) or if you had the wrong sounding name (that was me). No big deal, just part of growing up. But when I saw some other kid getting picked on for those reasons I just jumped in to help him. Caught plenty of beatings, but I stopped getting picked on myself. I guess they figured there wasn't a reason to beat me up, that would come when they picked on someone else. Kind of a two birds with one stone thing, I guess.

Been that way ever since. It ain't broke so I don't need to fix it.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

@GiYu - Todd, hey there.. you ditched your gf eh? Is like you are better off now, right? Tell me would you.. how do you know if some one deserve rescuing? What makes obvious that your help is required, like what criteria might you apply or again is it not like that.. is it a spur-of-the-moment-only kind of situation?? What do you think??

I'm much better off now.
The decision is mostly spur of the moment. If someone is in danger, I tend to help. I've helped save 13 people over the years... from CPR on an elderly neighbor, to lost people in the wilderness, to pulling people from burning planes. Only a couple times was I in personal danger to do so. One burning car, one burning plane, and another plane crash that occured near me and I became covered in fuel and still continued getting the trapped pilot out. The rest were just helping out. But most were just going about their business and something unfortunate happened to them.
I am least likely to help out someone intentionally doing something stupid. The GF trying to start fights is a good example. I have no urge to suffer due to someone's very poor decisions... so I separated from the situation. Similarly, I've had family members needing help, due to work or other reasons, that I readily gave money to or offered an extended place to stay. But other family members who had drug problems that I turned my back on because I didn't chose to enable that behavior, and they failed to convince me they were planned to quit. I wished them luck and truly hope they find their way in life... but I won't help at this point.

 

[JowGaWolf]

For me, I would have to say that sometimes it's reflexive and sometimes it's not. Sometimes actions are taken without consideration of my own safety mainly because there's just not a lot of time to think about it. Sometimes it's the quick reaction that increases your safety and not the thought and time to determine if you should risk your safety.

The best example that I can think of is if you saw someone next to you about to pull out a gun, would you try to restrain him before he can shoot it, or would you try to run away and hope that he doesn't shoot you as you are running away bumping into people. It doesn't matter which choice you make, because the longer you take trying to decide what to do, the higher the risk will be.

Then there are some times when evaluating the situation is what saves your life. Running into a burning building with the assumption that someone is still in there, or that you can get to that person against all odds. Breaking up a fight between 2 strangers is another situation that where I would put my safety first.

Now that I'm married and have kids, I can't just react the same way that I used to when it was only my safety that I have to worry about.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I've been in situations where I reflexively put a friends life above my own (car accident, firework incident), so fairly certain that's the answer to the first part. However, if I had time to think about it, no idea if I would still do that or if I would be too scared/selfish to help un-instinctively. Never been in a situation where I had to make the conscious decision, and I'm glad for that.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I get in a helicopter and pull people off mountains. Out of the water. Out of vehicles. I'm exposed to violence, body fluids, and diseases of all sorts constantly.
That goes with the job.
I've chased a diver who got narc'd and kept going down, caught them, and shared my gas with them on the way up, after they ran out (and it was neither Kim nor Sue). I've found a diver with NO cave training who got separated from their group, and got them out of the cave. I've grabbed divers who had (for various reasons) panicked, and prevented them from shooting to the surface like a Polaris Missile.
I just think of it as doing the right thing. It's not instinct. I know exactly what I'm doing, and what risks I'm taking, and constantly evaluate the level of risk.

For example, the diver who got narc'd. They had gone below the depth for which they were trained and equipped. But not beyond the depth for which I am trained and equipped. I believed I had enough gas to catch them and bring them to the surface, and I knew from my own training and experience that I wouldn't get narc'd like they did.

The movie Sanctum got an awful lot of stuff wrong (and bears no resemblance whatsoever to the actual events they claim it is based on). But they did get one thing right.

If trying to save the other diver means you're both going to die... better one body than two.
That is equally true if we're trying to pull someone off a mountain.
Risk is a part of both my job and my hobbies. But it's always a calculated risk.

 

[Buka]

I get in a helicopter and pull people off mountains. Out of the water. Out of vehicles. I'm exposed to violence, body fluids, and diseases of all sorts constantly.
That goes with the job.
I've chased a diver who got narc'd and kept going down, caught them, and shared my gas with them on the way up, after they ran out (and it was neither Kim nor Sue). I've found a diver with NO cave training who got separated from their group, and got them out of the cave. I've grabbed divers who had (for various reasons) panicked, and prevented them from shooting to the surface like a Polaris Missile.
I just think of it as doing the right thing. It's not instinct. I know exactly what I'm doing, and what risks I'm taking, and constantly evaluate the level of risk.

For example, the diver who got narc'd. They had gone below the depth for which they were trained and equipped. But not beyond the depth for which I am trained and equipped. I believed I had enough gas to catch them and bring them to the surface, and I knew from my own training and experience that I wouldn't get narc'd like they did.

The movie Sanctum got an awful lot of stuff wrong (and bears no resemblance whatsoever to the actual events they claim it is based on). But they did get one thing right.

If trying to save the other diver means you're both going to die... better one body than two.
That is equally true if we're trying to pull someone off a mountain.
Risk is a part of both my job and my hobbies. But it's always a calculated risk.

It's why I'm always thankful for you guys. You're all nuts, but thank God you are. I could never do your job.

 

[Ironbear24]

I don't like helping people, once i saw this guy hitting a woman and I stepped in and told him to knock it off. He pushed me and said the classic "What the f!ck are you gonna about it pussy!?" So I punched him in the face and eventually I tossed him to the floor, I don't remember all the details but I do remember that akward feeling on my knuckles from hitting somebody.

It's not something I am all that used to, not in the face anyway. Next thing I know the woman he was hitting was slapping me and pushing me saying things like "WTF WHY DID YOU DO THIS!?" I'm looking at her like, really? This guy made your face look like ground beef and you're angry at me and not him?

I suppose I am ok with helping some people though, once when I was only 16 my step dad who was this 6,3 300 + pound tub of bird **** was abusing my mother and I stepped in and cussed him out, I told him to go f!ck off and leave her alone. He threatened me and I had just came back from Kenpo class and was still in my GI. I felt like a super hero, he stood up and stared at me and walked toward me, I stood there ready for him, then he walked around me, went into his room and slammed the door. I then walked over to my mom and said that I will always be there for her and that I told her he is an *******, I also said that she should never let anyone speak to her that way or treat her like that.

She did not learn and chose to stay with him for about 5 years or so, I heard rumors that he tried to choke her and her sister (my aunt) stopped him. I told him if he ever hurts her or any of my family that I will personally end him. Since then he has been a nicer person, whether the threats were the cause of it I'll never know but the important thing he has calmed down a lot from what I hear anyway.

There was this other time in college I saw someone get threatened with a pocket knife. I am guessing the idiot did not consider someone else seeing this as the area was behind some classrooms were a table and benches were for a quiet place to eat and drink. I went over there because I was killing time between classes and that's when I saw it happen. I told the guy who was being threatened. "Oh cmon, don't be afraid it's only a pocket knife, you have so much weapons around you, pick up that chair and bash in the fvcking head with it." The guy with the knife said to mind my own business and I said "See that's the funny thing though, this is my friend you are threatening. So that makes it my business."

He honestly was not my friend, I didn't even know his name, but I made a new friend that day because the idiot took his butter knife and ran off.

 

[Jenna]

@donald1, hey thanks.. you like helping people, might that include people you don't really know, like I mean outside of your family/friends? What about some one you don't much care for, would you be likely to walk away if you saw that person in trouble that might benefit from your help? Do you think all people like helping other people, or at least have that feeling somewhere in them -maybe in some it is buried more deeply?? What do you think?

@Whitespace, hi, hey so you might intercede on behalf of some one else who seemed incapable of defending their selves, right? I can understand that. Would you act the same in the certainty that you would suffer harm in doing so, or are you calculating the potential risk to your self prior to acting? That is what I mean.. is it a spur of the moment thing or if you jump into some one elses trouble, is it considered or calculated at all?? Thank you

@Bill Mattocks, Well apparently your immortality has not let you down yet! thank you for your reply.. I am interested why you say it was a mistake to have gotten involved? Was your intention not good? I sense a harshness around your recall of your younger 'foolish' self both for action and inaction and I wonder why so? Perhaps that younger self would have a lesson for the older wiser self to learn? Service in public defence is a noble endeavour though yes? Thank you again

@Rich Parsons, Rich, hey thank you.. Tell me when you acted against bullies, what made you act when you did not know the person being harassed? If it is no matter to you, why would you put your self in harms way over that person or people? Do you think there is some thing innate in people to act like this on behalf of another?? And again, if you knew or suspected de-escalation would fail and you knew or suspected you would not come out of a situation well, do you think your mind to act would differ? or is there some thing primal about acting in such a situation? Thank you x

@oftheherd1, hello! you have made some points I want to ask you about like you can see here there is a pattern here of acting on behalf of those being bullied.. can you explain to me why you might think this view seem prevalent in people?? Is it just among people whom themselves were bullied or some thing else do you think?? And you also like @Bill Mattocks have been engaged in public defence.. would you tell me if having to perform a duty precludes that duty from being a noble act? And in dealing with the incident involving your wife, you put your self in between and were the potential consequences on your mind at all at that stage? I am happy for your tongue-fu haha.. It is a skill perhaps unlike others that only improve with age Hey I want to ask you because you have thanked God for your safety.. I want to ask if you intervene on behalf of someone else knowing or suspecting you may suffer the harm oringinally intended for them and you do so for their sake and protection, is that always the right thing to do in a moral sense?

@Xue Sheng, hello XS, putting your self between those you care for and a potential harmful element yes I understand this.. can you say though why would you -why does any one- act this way when the situation involves some one you do not know or even otherwise particularly care about? Like the older gentleman, you care enough to act? Is it a proximity related thing.. were you to have heard about him having fallen on the local news bulletin would he have been just another name? I am interested in how or why we are prompted to act on the behalf of another.. what do you think?? x

@Buka, wisdom eh? the only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing, right Hey I want to ask since you have been raised up in tough areas.. I feel your pain -harassed for being different nationality and culture!! I hear you my friend! And but then tell me B like if you happen across a person in difficulty have you any obligation to act on their behalf at all, I mean if I could widen it out do we ever have any obligation like morally to help someone to whom we are in a position to offer that help and under what circumstances are you right to withhold that help when it would be in your power to act on their behalf? I mean like how do we even know it is not better to leave them to what is coming.. we all learn hard lessons from hard knocks right? How can we be sure if we weigh in that we are doing the right thing, specially for the person we claim to be intervening on behalf of?? Your thoughts would help me out a lot here and so thank you again for your input x

@GiYu - Todd, hey thank you again! Can you tell me please looking back rationally why you acted instinctively to help others, potentially putting your self in the way of serious and potentially fatal harm like you have done when you could have stood by and watched in safety? Does every one have this innate will to intervene or is it personal perhaps because of your own situation you see things differently?? Yet you are drawing the line at intervening where some one have intentionally put their selves in a compromising situation.. Can I ask you then what is the difference between your gf doing stupid stuff and the pilot in the plane crash? It is not arbitrary drawing the line at her actions having caused the situation? If it were not your gf and but some other girl maybe drunk and being harassed is it different do you think?? I am interested to know why we might act specially when we can get our selves in harm as a consequence or not act in which case the consequence is potentially one of regret maybe?? Thank you my friend x

@JowGaWolf, thank you for replying, yes I see what you are saying that evaluating a situation is most likely to preserve your safety though as you know, if as example a family member fall into a frozen pond, you will not think only you will act instinctively, the certain nature of the harm you will be in is no consideration yes? Is interesting you say you have to 'worry' about safety of your family, you are the protector in a way, yes? I like that.. You would have no thought to put your self between a gun and your children without hesitation yes? It is not a noble thing it is just how it is.. I am a mother I know there is no question.. I am wondering though how far does this instinct go, is it just family and loved ones? Would you be inclined to intervene where you had the capability to, on behalf of another who was not a loved one?? Thank you for your thoughts

@kempodisciple, good to get your input thank you! It resonates how you say about acting without thought for your own safety in the case of accidents yes absolutely.. Can I ask please would you say the chances of you acting reflexively and putting your self in potential harms way for another person depend upon the value of that person to you? I do not mean that as a pointed question, I wonder do we all have the potential will to act thus no matter who the person is or is it quite the opposite and in acting on behalf of another we are, as you have alluded to only acting in our own indirect self-interests? Interested to know what you think x

@Dirty Dog, hey thank you for taking time to reply! Like @Buka, I am grateful too on behalf of others that you have assisted and continue to.. Your job and hobbies both involve risk and but these acts that undoubtedly save others are not instinct and but are careful processed rapid evaluations.. when I read that it is like you have excised the emotive 'you' or the feeling 'you' out of the evaluative process yes?? You are necessarily calculated in the risks you are taking because your life and the life of others depend entirely on that, this is true? I do not know that is true.. if so would the emotive DD be more apt to act in a more careless or reckless way and endanger himself and potentially others do you think? I am wrestling with some thing like this so your view would help alot thank you x

@Ironbear24, hey, I am grateful for your response.. You raise some interesting points for me.. like you intervened on behalf of that woman and immediately your action, which was done with the most noble intention of helping was shown to you as the wrong one, that must have been hard to take.. I can understand why you changed your mind to not liking to help people.. make sense to me.. And you intervened between your mom and step dad.. whether or not she stayed with him, your action still ensured her safety in that instance.. it is not always a black and white simple issue, as you have shown, thank you. You intervened on behalf of the guy in college being threatened with a knife.. can I ask please why you did this when he was not really your friend, specially since this was not an instinctive thing rather a considered action.. or was it? What made you act and not just leave it and leave the guy to it when it was not your problem? This is what I am interested to know thank you again

 

[Ironbear24]

I did it out of choice, it wasn't an instinct. I don't like it when people act like jerks.