Puching with Technique vs punching hard vs punching push

[JowGaWolf]

1st: I apologize for the bad angle, I was leaning the camera against the wall.
2nd: Don't be a butt, jerk, or A-hole by trying to copy what you see and then seeing how much you can hurt someone.
3rd: Don't ask me to show or explain how to do the technique being used because no one follows the 2nd statement above.

Over the last couple of days there's been good discussion about punching and hitting the heavy bag. Tonight was conditioning night where one person is hitting and the other person is taking the hits.

We have seen video of people punching heavy bags and sometimes it's really difficult to understand the forces at work just by watching. Other than a dent, the bag isn't going to show the result of punching force and technique. So I thought you guys would like seeing the effectiveness of punches, and techniques. Take notice that all of these are punches a push would have knocked me backwards, but you can clearly see me hold my ground when punched without technique and collapsing after being hit with technique. The stubble backwards is because of the pain and not because the punch was a pushing one.

Background about the video:
This is us doing conditioning training so we aren't trying to hurt each other. We start off light and then we increase at our partners request.

The first video is of me and the other instructor. My goal is to focus on technique without power. You'll notice that I'm not hitting hard, but listen to the comment that my partner makes and take note of his reaction. Focus on the 2 guys in the far back. I'm the one in the black and the other instructor is in the red. My partner returns the favor and throws a few punches at me but slightly harder. This video is about 2 minutes unedited. No faking
Video 1: Conditioning in the class

The second video was so people here can get a better look. Keep in mind that my stomach was punished earlier so while it looks like I'm over reacting I'm not. Even with my stomach bruised from the earlier shots I can still handle the harder hits without technique. You can tell by the sound of the punches that the punches are coming in at decent speed. We he starts punching with technique the punches aren't as loud but you can definitely tell that I'm not enjoying it.
Video 2: A closer look of what was going on in video 1

The best way I can describe it, is that the punches without technique felt like they were dull impacts. The punches with technique felt like "biting punches" as if the fist was actually biting or cutting into my stomach. Our reactions isn't from the impact of the punch, its from the pain that the punches are causing. We were probably using maybe 5% power 100% and 25% technique. I say 25% technique because we weren't adding any power.

The same punch with full technique and full power would cause us to lose breath as well as hurt and may cause some internal damage.

Hopefully this video will help those who want to hit the heavy bag without gloves, understand the importance of focusing on technique instead of power. Don't get caught up in making the bag swing. It has now been 3 hours since the video and my stomach still has pain and is very tender.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Nice! Thanks for the videos. Lots of differences in style from what we do, but some similarities too.

The first video is what we would call 'kotikitae'. Conditioning.

The second video also appears to contain a lot of kotikitae, but you are including some punches to the breadbasket, kind of a downward strike. Obviously effective, and technique over power. Very nice.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nice! Thanks for the videos. Lots of differences in style from what we do, but some similarities too.

The first video is what we would call 'kotikitae'. Conditioning.

The second video also appears to contain a lot of kotikitae, but you are including some punches to the breadbasket, kind of a downward strike. Obviously effective, and technique over power. Very nice.

Thanks. I'm curious to know if the technique works with mma gloves on. I won't be able to try until my stomach heals.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nice! Thanks for the videos. Lots of differences in style from what we do, but some similarities too.

The first video is what we would call 'kotikitae'. Conditioning.

The second video also appears to contain a lot of kotikitae, but you are including some punches to the breadbasket, kind of a downward strike. Obviously effective, and technique over power. Very nice.

Do you do any type of QiGong exercise in your fighting system, where you make your arm movement slow with a lot tense and then quickly release the tension?

 

[MAfreak]

i also think, that body area is very sensitive. even poking someone with the finger will at least tickle, but maybe hurt him for hours. thats why "liver shots" and similar is feared in boxing, i guess.

 

[drop bear]

I would have to have that done to me to accurately judge.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Do you do any type of QiGong exercise in your fighting system, where you make your arm movement slow with a lot tense and then quickly release the tension?

Not that I am qualified to speak of. Something we might compare someday over a beer, perhaps.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I would have to have that done to me to accurately judge.

Agreed. It's easy to see form on a punching bag. A lot tougher to see the effectiveness of this punch vs. that without feeling it on my own body. Still appreciate the videos

 

[JowGaWolf]

i also think, that body area is very sensitive. even poking someone with the finger will at least tickle, but maybe hurt him for hours. thats why "liver shots" and similar is feared in boxing, i guess.

You can take quite a bit of punishment to the stomach which is why I had him to hit me without using technique first. You can hear me tell him to hit me harder. When you hear the sound and see the punch you can tell he's giving me decent punches to my stomach. Then when I tell him to hit me with technique, I also tell him to hit me softer. He literally has to try to punch more effectively with a softer punch. When you see the video you can tell by the his hand speed that he's not punching as fast or as hard as before.

This is the same as the video of me punching him. My arms look like I'm just tapping his stomach, but to him he thinks I'm really punching hard. With the normal punch that most people throw the force isn't focused which means that people have to swing harder in order to create similar results. This goes back to the heavy bag discussion on how to hit a heavy bag. Most people believe that the swinging of the bag is a good sign of a powerful punch but it actually means the opposite.

There is a sensitive area which is above the stomach and he almost hit it, and you can hear me tell him to hit lower. That area is the sweet spot and it doesn't matter if a person is hitting with technique or not, because once that area is struck you'll fill it big time and will have difficulty with breathing.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I would have to have that done to me to accurately judge.

I'm all for seeing someone punch you with technique to your stomach lol. Go for it. If you lived in the same area as me I would be more than happy to let you experience it. ha ha ha.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Agreed. It's easy to see form on a punching bag. A lot tougher to see the effectiveness of this punch vs. that without feeling it on my own body. Still appreciate the videos

The effectiveness of a punch can be seen by how we are reacting to getting hit. There are just some things people do when they aren't faking. Mainly when you are feeling pain, you aren't as eager to hop back up to get more of it. You don't see me eagerly getting back into position to get hit, you actually see me hesitate. The other thing that helps is to hear the conversation that is being had about the punch.
Usually when people show stuff like this, it's in a demo and the person who gets hit never gives feedback on what they are feeling.

Someone posted a video of his younger self getting punch (I think it was bill), and you can tell from his reaction that the punch was effective, there was discussion about what he was feeling. While this doesn't allow you to experience it yourself, it does add to the validity of the effectiveness. The only way that you can truly know is to experience it first hand which I encourage. The only thing I can say is focus on the technique of your punches and learn how to punch effectively without punching hard.

 

[FriedRice]

Thanks for the videos. These seems to be just arm punches and inferior to the techniques of Western Boxing. Now I'm not saying that they don't work, so sure they can hurt. But training hard on the bag with gloves on, you can work technique for maximum power, speed and precision. Without gloves, then just work techniques for speed and precision. And not swinging the bag, but snapping and jerking it.

 

[Anyan]

ouuu man))))))))

 

[JowGaWolf]

ouuu man))))))))

I still have sensitive bruising about the size of a knuckle. I think the technique actually tears the muscles because the pain is limited to very small areas on my stomach muscle. It's not wide spread like bruising and it feels more like a cut than a bruise. I'm 43 years old so my healing time may be longer than people who are younger than me, but I can easily see it taking longer than a week to heal. The video was taken last Wednesday, Feb. 3, 2016

I'm currently teaching a student how to punch with technique. She has a habit of trying to always punch hard and only generating energy from her arms so I have her punching a tree to help her learn how to punch correctly by only focusing on the technique of punching. This way the tree punishes her for punching hard.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well, this technique on no technique thing, is like lobbing rocks at people, which does hurt, but real punches are shot from a machine. A human catapult if you will. However, I agree you should only hit as hard as your hand can handle, but you can still do that at a blinding speed. (Did you know that the Russian word for Bullet is Pult, and the English word for really big bullet is also Pult but for some reason it comes with a cat)

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well, this technique on no technique thing, is like lobbing rocks at people, which does hurt, but real punches are shot from a machine. A human catapult if you will. However, I agree you should only hit as hard as your hand can handle, but you can still do that at a blinding speed. (Did you know that the Russian word for Bullet is Pult, and the English word for really big bullet is also Pult but for some reason it comes with a cat)

Yep. speed and power are separate things, so it's definitely possible to hit with one without using the other. Unfortunately not many people have enough control to separate the 2.

 

[Flying Crane]

Thanks for the videos. These seems to be just arm punches and inferior to the techniques of Western Boxing. Now I'm not saying that they don't work, so sure they can hurt. But training hard on the bag with gloves on, you can work technique for maximum power, speed and precision. Without gloves, then just work techniques for speed and precision. And not swinging the bag, but snapping and jerking it.

If you can only practice full power with gloves, then how can you ever use full power in self defense, when you are not wearing gloves?

From what I've seen, yes, western boxers put their body into the punch and do increase power over simply punching with the arm. However, they are not the only ones who know how to put the strength of the whole body into a punch. And from what I've seen, I am not convinced that their method is the best.

 

[JowGaWolf]

These seems to be just arm punches and inferior to the techniques of Western Boxing.

Here's some comparison for you. Notice the effort being put into the punches compared to the effort that the instructor and I put into the punches.

Still need proof. Here's a hard hit to the stomach. Notice the force of punch knocks him back. In my video it's not the force that's knocking me back it's the pain that is knocking me back. The instructor didn't need to draw back for a power punch to move me.

Still need more proof? Look at how hard these punches are? and yet none of them collapsed like what was shown in the video. what was different? It's clear that they were punching much harder than what the instructor and I were punching. So why did the small punches hurt me so bad? Why can't the guys punching the below make their guy bend over in pain?

So while you say that what I was doing was inferior, when you look at the results in comparison and listen to the feedback in my video. Someone is definitely punching more efficiently

 

[Flatfish]

This is really interesting...I wished we put more emphasis on punching in my art....lots to learn

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is really interesting...I wished we put more emphasis on punching in my art....lots to learn

What fighting system do you train in? Punching is one of those basics that has different levels, I don't know too many schools that dive deep into the techniques of delivering a punch even my Sifu didn't go into great details. He taught us the technique, how our fist should be made and where to draw the power from. The rest is a personal journey that you have to take based on how you are taught to punch in your system. It usually starts with analyzing the movement of the punch, are elbows in or out, is the entire body being used to generate the force of the punch or is only part of the body being used. When you hit someone, what part of the fist are you actually hitting with? Is it the knuckles, the flat part of the fist made by the fingers. Are you hitting with 3 knuckles, one knuckle, or 2 knuckles? Is the punch a moving straight, upward, downward, hooking, or landing in a hammer motion. How does the arm feel when it makes the impact? How is the force traveling through the arm? Is it putting alot of stress on the shoulders, arms, elbow? Is the wrist weak and does it bend when you hit too hard? What is the best fist to make for the punch you are hitting with? Are you focusing on power when you should be focusing on technique.

The more you dig deeper into what makes a really good punch the more you'll begin to understand that there is more to a punch than just hitting hard.

I also wouldn't recommend people taking punches to the stomach like these guys did. There's just no good that can come from it. I think sometimes people forget that there are organs behind the stomach.