Properly identify what you teach and learn.

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You send her to someone who knows what they are on about.

Or help her call the police. It's not the responsibility of a civilian to help someone with no experience become safe from a stalker they already have.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Or help her call the police. It's not the responsibility of a civilian to help someone with no experience become safe from a stalker they already have.

I totally agree with this. In fact that's part of my point regarding understanding our skill sets. Of course in many cases, they may have already been to the police. Maybe a report was taken. Maybe they didn't get great advice. There is still a ton someone can do to help this person with the right knowledge.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I don't like the word of SD. Your goal is to force your opponent to defense himself.

Many years ago, a girl asked me if MA can be used for self-defense. She then showed me bruises on her legs that her husband beat her up everyday. She joined in my class for 6 months. 6 months later she quited my class. Her husband started to join in my class. People told me that she started to beat her husband up everyday.

In my class, students used sparring as warm up. Each student could accumulate a lot of sparring experience within 6 months of training (3 times a week, 3 hours each class).

If you want to learn how to fight, you have to fight.

It sounds like you are describing abuse. I'm not quite sure exactly the point you are trying to make? But I do like the fact that we are closely examining terms.

Self-defense is pretty well laid you morally and legally in most American laws regarding the justifiable use of force and the justifiable use of lethal force.

Primarily we are talking about ethical and legal counter violence and even preemptive counter violence when justified. Proper use of force is a subject all on its own.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It sounds like you are describing abuse.

Do not allow your opponent to abuse you should be your goal.

What's your MA training goal?

1. Ability to knock/take your opponent down, or
2. Ability not to be knocked/taken down?

You can't achieve 2 without having achieved 1 first.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Do not allow your opponent to abuse you should be your goal.

What's your MA training goal?

1. Ability to knock/take your opponent down, or
2. Ability not to be knocked/taken down?

You can't achieve 2 without having achieved 1 first.

I think the issue here is that your spouse should not be your abuser.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well let's assume a woman comes to a martial artist with no previous experience and says she needs to protect herself because someone is sending her threatening messages. Do you give her a one day seminar on self defense? Send her to a gun store, and try to teach her firearms? Or do you help her develope a safety plan?

And if the threat is legit, and she really needs help, how knowledgeable are you as a martial arts instructor to help her with that safety plan? Do you wing it? Fake it until you make it? Or do you send her to the police to learn how to protect herself?

Or have you previously recognize that even though you are a martial arts instructor, maybe you should cross train in another discipline such as personal security consulting? So you start doing research and learn how to properly do threat assessments, program assessments, sight assessments, vulnerability assessments, avoidance strategies, mitigation strategies, communication strategies, contingency planning, surveillance detection, so on an so forth and so forth?

The same way you are not going to invent how to do BJJ in the moment, you will not develop these other skills without a focused study.

I literally can't explain it any better than that.

That’s a pretty specific hypothetical situation. I’ve never encountered anything analogous to it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Also, it’s a not a very good argument that there’s a problem choosing between BJJ and self-defense.

BJJ is literally what’s taught for law enforcement to restrain suspects, and SOF for restraining captured targets.

The difference is they don’t focus on technique that assumes you’re on the mat in competition settings—which goes for applying all MMA accordingly.

Which is why the terms in the OP aren’t all that important, really.

 

[Jared Traveler]

That’s a pretty specific hypothetical situation. I’ve never encountered anything analogous to it.

The generic scenario where someone gets a threatening text message is not specific all all, intentionally generic and happens to people all the time. But I get it, you don't find in learning new skill sets. That's totally cool.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The generic scenario where someone gets a threatening text message is not specific all all, intentionally generic and happens to people all the time. But I get it, you don't find in learning new skill sets. That's totally cool.

You seem to be a bit over the place here, suggesting specific situations, then switching to general ones, then back to specifics, so let's narrow it down to a specific scenario.

Someone comes in to your dojo with a text that says "I'm going to kill you". Is that a good scenario for your questions of how to deal with it? And is there any context between you (as the hypothetical potential-victim) and the texter? Or is this one of those you posted on twitter and some rando 2000 miles away got triggered?

 

[Jared Traveler]

You seem to be a bit over the place here, suggesting specific situations, then switching to general ones, then back to specifics, so let's narrow it down to a specific scenario.

Someone comes in to your dojo with a text that says "I'm going to kill you". Is that a good scenario for your questions of how to deal with it? And is there any context between you (as the hypothetical potential-victim) and the texter? Or is this one of those you posted on twitter and some rando 2000 miles away got triggered?

My point applies to both general and specific scenarios. Both are present in an attempted to show how this applies both generally and specifically. While I might be applying general and specific scenarios, it is in an attempt to make congruent points.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My point applies to both general and specific scenarios. Both are present in an attempted to show how this applies both generally and specifically. While I might be applying general and specific scenarios, it is in an attempt to make congruent points.

You can apply a point to both. But you're in a discussion forum, with people you can't talk to face to face. The best option to explain your point is to use a specific scenario, and follow it through to the end to make your point. If you switch back and forth between general and specific, or you change the specific scenario halfway through, it seems as though you're changing it to make up any shortcomings with your idea, rather than a natural flow of conversation.

 

[drop bear]

My point applies to both general and specific scenarios. Both are present in an attempted to show how this applies both generally and specifically. While I might be applying general and specific scenarios, it is in an attempt to make congruent points.

Is ringing white ribbon.

Domestic Violence Hotlines | Get Help | White Ribbon Australia

Call our range of recommended domestic violence hotlines including 1800RESPECT, Men's Referral Service, Mensline Australia and more. Get the right support.

www.whiteribbon.org.au

The same argument as combatives isn't really sport?

Because they feel a bit stretched.

 

[Jared Traveler]

You can apply a point to both. But you're in a discussion forum, with people you can't talk to face to face. The best option to explain your point is to use a specific scenario, and follow it through to the end to make your point. If you switch back and forth between general and specific, or you change the specific scenario halfway through, it seems as though you're changing it to make up any shortcomings with your idea, rather than a natural flow of conversation.

This is partly my mistake. The original post contained no example. I was asked to give one and I did. Intentionally keeping it just simple enough to make the point, without adding unnecessary details. People kept adding points and discussing aspects that had nothing to do with the original point.

In an attempt to keep the thread on track I added another example, to show how the specifics were not important. That led to questions, I added a few points to make that scenario more detailed to draw out the point.

It was never intended to be an instructional on "how to mitigate a carjacking" or how to "how to consult someone being threatened."

This was not intended to be a "how to thread" hints my reluctance to go down a path on any one scenario, once it gets off topic. It's not an evasion of discussion, rather it's an attempt to have a focused effort to discuss the original topic.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Is ringing white ribbon.

Domestic Violence Hotlines | Get Help | White Ribbon Australia

Call our range of recommended domestic violence hotlines including 1800RESPECT, Men's Referral Service, Mensline Australia and more. Get the right support.

www.whiteribbon.org.au

The same argument as combatives isn't really sport?

Because they feel a bit stretched.

Drop Bear, this almost seems on topic, so I'm interested. But I'm not sure I understand your question?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This is partly my mistake. The original post contained no example. I was asked to give one and I did. Intentionally keeping it just simple enough to make the point, without adding unnecessary details. People kept adding points and discussing aspects that had nothing to do with the original point.

In an attempt to keep the thread on track I added another example, to show how the specifics were not important. That led to questions, I added a few points to make that scenario more detailed to draw out the point.

It was never intended to be an instructional on "how to mitigate a carjacking" or how to "how to consult someone being threatened."

This was not intended to be a "how to thread" hints my reluctance to go down a path on any one scenario, once it gets off topic. It's not an evasion of discussion, rather it's an attempt to have a focused effort to discuss the original topic.

That's fair. As a result of a forum format, things can easily lose their initial point. When that's happened to my threads, my response has been to create new threads-in this situation, if I was the OP, I would create a thread to discuss how to handle a carjacking, allowing the option to go down a specific thread, and a separate new thread discussing different self-defence strategies, while avoiding mentioning any specific scenarios and letting other posters fill in their ideas. I'd definitely create the carjacking one though, so it didn't seem like I was avoiding it, and allow others (and myself) to delve deep into a specific scenario. That's one of the benefits of a forum-you can delve as deep as you want into something without it affecting other debates.

Most people on here know me though, and I'm a moderator, so that might effect it. I assume it would go well if you did the same, but not 100% sure.

 

[drop bear]

Drop Bear, this almost seems on topic, so I'm interested. But I'm not sure I understand your question?

Ok.

"Martial Arts Training
Self-defense Training
Combatives Training
Safety Training
Personal Security Training

These skills are not the same. It is important to know what you are teaching and learning. Your thoughts?"



The skills seem to be nuances on martial arts training. But the examples are give them the car or ring a help line.

.you seem to be confusing the cause with the effect here.

 

[Jared Traveler]

That's fair. As a result of a forum format, things can easily lose their initial point. When that's happened to my threads, my response has been to create new threads-in this situation, if I was the OP, I would create a thread to discuss how to handle a carjacking, allowing the option to go down a specific thread, and a separate new thread discussing different self-defence strategies, while avoiding mentioning any specific scenarios and letting other posters fill in their ideas. I'd definitely create the carjacking one though, so it didn't seem like I was avoiding it, and allow others (and myself) to delve deep into a specific scenario. That's one of the benefits of a forum-you can delve as deep as you want into something without it affecting other debates.

Most people on here know me though, and I'm a moderator, so that might effect it. I assume it would go well if you did the same, but not 100% sure.

I might. I didn't really come on here to teach as much as I did to discuss things I find interesting.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Ok.

"Martial Arts Training
Self-defense Training
Combatives Training
Safety Training
Personal Security Training

These skills are not the same. It is important to know what you are teaching and learning. Your thoughts?"



The skills seem to be nuances on martial arts training. But the examples are give them the car or ring a help line.

.you seem to be confusing the cause with the effect here.

Are you suggesting I should give examples more specific to martial arts?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I might. I didn't really come on here to teach as much as I did to discuss things I find interesting.

Yeah, my points weren't about you teaching. You haven't expressed anything that indicates you can teach most of us anyway, but we can always discuss stuff. But delving deep into a specific situation is a great way for everyone to learn.

 

[drop bear]

Are you suggesting I should give examples more specific to martial arts?

That depends are you talking about martial arts or are you talking about who to contact in a domestic violence case?

The thing is i think you are using these examples to stretch the definitions out. The more they are stretched out the more clear the examples.

But the examples are so far removed from martial arts as to become irrelevant.