Properly identify what you teach and learn.

[Jared Traveler]

I find that the longer I do this type of work, certain things become clear. One of those things is how important definitions are to bringing clarity to what you are learning, and what you are not learning. What you are teaching and what you are not teaching. Here are some terms to consider definitions for.

Martial Arts Training
Self-defense Training
Combatives Training
Safety Training
Personal Security Training

These skills are not the same. It is important to know what you are teaching and learning. Your thoughts?

 

[drop bear]

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I find that the longer I do this type of work, certain things become clear. One of those things is how important definitions are to bringing clarity to what you are learning, and what you are not learning. What you are teaching and what you are not teaching. Here are some terms to consider definitions for.

Martial Arts Training
Self-defense Training
Combatives Training
Safety Training
Personal Security Training

These skills are not the same. It is important to know what you are teaching and learning. Your thoughts?

I don't think consistent definitions exist for most of those, and there is a huge overlap between others - some may even be subsets of others (depending how you define them). To you, what's the importance of getting the correct term?

 

[Jared Traveler]

Disagree strongly on them being all the same. Some overland, yes, some.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I don't think consistent definitions exist for most of those, and there is a huge overlap between others - some may even be subsets of others (depending how you define them). To you, what's the importance of getting the correct term?

I agree that consistent definitions don't exist, and that's part of the problem. And to be clear, my objective is not to define these for everyone. Rather to have anyone who is interested, consider the differences for themselves. My definition may not be yours ultimately. But the differences are important, regardless what name you attach to them.

 

[drop bear]

Disagree strongly on them being all the same. Some overland, yes, some.

Ok. Tell me the situation Mike Tyson would face where he would be at more of a disadvantage than say a specifically trained person?

 

[Jared Traveler]

Ok. Tell me the situation Mike Tyson would face where he would be at more of a disadvantage than say a specifically trained person?

Easy. Three guys with AK47s carjacking him. Or someone stealing his bag while he is on his phone at a coffee shop.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree that consistent definitions don't exist, and that's part of the problem. And to be clear, my objective is not to define these for everyone. Rather to have anyone who is interested, consider the differences for themselves. My definition may not be yours ultimately. But the differences are important, regardless what name you attach to them.

Again, I ask why - for you - this is important. To me, the distinction of these terms is unimportant. What's important is that those of us teaching know (and are honest with ourselves and our students) what we are teaching, and what the focus of that training is. And that students know what they are training in. Which words are used to convey that isn't important, so getting personal definitions for these terms isn't, either - unless you use them to define what you do.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I find that the longer I do this type of work, certain things become clear. One of those things is how important definitions are to bringing clarity to what you are learning, and what you are not learning. What you are teaching and what you are not teaching. Here are some terms to consider definitions for.

Martial Arts Training
Self-defense Training
Combatives Training
Safety Training
Personal Security Training

These skills are not the same. It is important to know what you are teaching and learning. Your thoughts?

Train and teach according to the focus and purpose.
If you want to fight then here are some key training you need to participate in.
If you don't want to fight then drop the fight training and focus on other aspects.

It pretty much boils down to 2 things:
1. If you want to learn how to physically fight, then you have to spar.
2. If you don't want to learn how to fight then there's no need to spar.

From there everything pretty much works itself out. This worked for me when I used to teach. I would just students which path they wanted to take. Some people don't know what it takes to learn to how to fight using the techniques being taught. When I brought up sparring some were more than happy to just do #2. Other's were specifically looking for #1 Even if they were doing it just for exercises. With sparring you are either attacking or defending and because of that, are gaining some skill sets that can be used in physically fighting.

I'm with drop bear on this one. The naming conventions is just marketing in an effort to compete against another options for learning how to fight.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Easy. Three guys with AK47s carjacking him. Or someone stealing his bag while he is on his phone at a coffee shop.

The first one, nobody is going to fare well in, except Liam Neeson. The second, what makes you say Tyson would be at a disadvantage over someone specifically trained to deal with fighting with a phone in one hand and coffee in the other?

 

[Jared Traveler]

The first one, nobody is going to fare well in, except Liam Neeson. The second, what makes you say Tyson would be at a disadvantage over someone specifically trained to deal with fighting with a phone in one hand and coffee in the other?

Not true at all. Carjackings are something a great multitude of people have survived. And there is specific training to mitigate this, and to avoid it. I'm no antagonist, so please don't take it that way. But these comments are proving my point. Skill and knowledge at teaching one thing does not equate to skill at teaching a different subject matter.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Easy. Three guys with AK47s carjacking him. Or someone stealing his bag while he is on his phone at a coffee shop.

Both are non-fight scenarios. Someone stealing your bag and getting car jacked by 3 people with guns. Someone stealing your bag just depends on when you notice that it's going to be stolen and if you were in a position to stop it anyway. If you catch both scenarios earlier then you can take non-fighting approach. For example, don't drive in areas where people are known for carjacking others. Take preventive measures that make it less inviting to steal your bag.

Neither requires fighting. But if you want to try to fight your way out of it, Both will take sparring / scenario training.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Both are non-fight scenarios. Someone stealing your bag and getting car jacked by 3 people with guns. Someone stealing your bag just depends on when you notice that it's going to be stolen and if you were in a position to stop it anyway. If you catch both scenarios earlier then you can take non-fighting approach. For example, don't drive in areas where people are known for carjacking others. Take preventive measures that make it less inviting to steal your bag.

Neither requires fighting. But if you want to try to fight your way out of it, Both will take sparring / scenario training.

JowGaWolf exactly! Both are not fighting scenarios. Although you certainly could get in a fight over someone stealing your phone, depending on circumstances. Can and should maybe be important to distinguish. But as it pertains to protecting yourself, fighting is but one piece to the puzzle.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Skill and knowledge at teaching one thing does not equate to skill at teaching a different subject matter.

That's different then understanding what the focus is. If the teacher has no applicable knowledge then it is best to just be open about it. There is no one organization that give any of these teacher a standard of application knowledge. Because of that there's no way to regulate that. This means it's up to the student to make the best choice according to their focus.

 

[drop bear]

Easy. Three guys with AK47s carjacking him. Or someone stealing his bag while he is on his phone at a coffee shop.

You feel there is a system of training that handles 3 guys car jacking you with AKs?

And I am pretty sure Mike Tyson is keeping his bag.

 

[Jared Traveler]

That's different then understanding what the focus is. If the teacher has no applicable knowledge then it is best to just be open about it. There is no one organization that give any of these teacher a standard of application knowledge. Because of that there's no way to regulate that. This means it's up to the student to make the best choice according to their focus.

I agree, but it's hard to be honest if we are unaware of what we don't know. Roughly defining terms allows all of us collectively to have conversations, bring clarity, understanding, and even grow in areas we are weak. But this starts with openness, humility, and a desire to continue to learn.

 

[Jared Traveler]

You feel there is a system of training that handles 3 guys car jacking you with AKs?

And I am pretty sure Mike Tyson is keeping his bag.

Respectfully.. Yes, I do. And not everyone is Mike Tyson.

 

[drop bear]

Respectfully.. Yes, I do. And not everyone is Mike Tyson.

Doesn't matter. Mike tyson has a few very specific talents. That work in a wide range of circumstances.

So can punch your head off your shoulders. Is basically fluoride for toothpaste.

 

[drop bear]

Respectfully.. Yes, I do. And not everyone is Mike Tyson.

Oh and show us the anti Ak technique if you could.

Might be handy to know.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Oh and show us the anti Ak technique if you could.

Might be handy to know.

It might indeed. You sound antagonist, and implying I'm a fool. What would you do if three people with AK47s wanted your vehicle?