Properly identify what you teach and learn.

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Jared Traveler

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Yeah, my points weren't about you teaching. You haven't expressed anything that indicates you can teach most of us anyway, but we can always discuss stuff. But delving deep into a specific situation is a great way for everyone to learn.
I agree, this isn't a teaching platform. That's part of why I haven't started a thread on how to do anything. I think it wouldn't be received well anyways.
 
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Okay, I'm being asked to provide a detailed example for the purpose of unpacking what I'm talking about. Bear in mind, this is a real world example. However, my knowledge of the details will eventually reach its capacity and we might have to transition into hypothetical.

I once met a woman, who was violently assaulted by her ex-boyfriend. She had just flown back into town, and was meeting her new boyfriend, both sitting in a car in a random parking lot. The old boyfriend surprised them(he had a legitimate tracker on her vehicle), shoved a knife in the new boyfriends face, and told him to stay out of it.

Then drug her out of the car by her hair and spent the next 10 minutes cutting on her and biting her(while the new boyfriend coward behind a car on the phone with the police). When the police got there he had her hair and blood in her mouth, and she was sliced(marked up deep) all over. He didn't want to stop, but threw the knife down at the last moment to avoid being shot by the police.

He was arrested, but only given a $10,000 bond. In the last he had already kidnapped her at gun point and put her in the trunk of a car on a previous occasion.

This is the person now coming to you to figure out how to protect herself.
 
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The initial question could be regarding the scenario above:
1. Is martial arts training the best thing she can do in the time she has before he bonds out, to be prepared to protect herself?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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The initial question could be regarding the scenario above:
1. Is martial arts training the best thing she can do in the time she has before he bonds out, to be prepared to protect herself?
I think I asked this earlier, but did not get a response, so it bears re-asking. What exactly is your experience? The reason I ask is because how I respond to someone/the advice I give to someone that just started training 2 months ago and thinks they have all the answers is very different than how I react to someone who trained for the last 15 years. And how I respond to someone who's been mostly self-training for years with occasional seminars is different that how I'd respond to the people spending 15 years training under those that deliver the seminars.
 
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I think I asked this earlier, but did not get a response, so it bears re-asking. What exactly is your experience? The reason I ask is because how I respond to someone/the advice I give to someone that just started training 2 months ago and thinks they have all the answers is very different than how I react to someone who trained for the last 15 years. And how I respond to someone who's been mostly self-training for years with occasional seminars is different that how I'd respond to the people spending 15 years training under those that deliver the seminars.
Feel free to pm me and ask questions about my background. I don't care to have it broadcast on here. If you agree to not broadcast it, I will likely share it with you. On a case by case bases.
 

Flying Crane

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Feel free to pm me and ask questions about my background. I don't care to have it broadcast on here. If you agree to not broadcast it, I will likely share it with you. On a case by case bases.
You arent willing to state publicly who you have trained under and for how long? If youve got specific incidents in your life you dont want to talk publicly about, I understand that. But in terms of your training history, people who are very secretive about that kind of thing dont usually get much credibility. The people who actively engage in the discussions here are typically willing to openly state their training history.
 

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The generic scenario where someone gets a threatening text message is not specific all all, intentionally generic and happens to people all the time. But I get it, you don't find in learning new skill sets. That's totally cool.
Im talking about the person coming to an instructor with that request.

As for the other - feels a bit like baiting.
 

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Okay, I'm being asked to provide a detailed example for the purpose of unpacking what I'm talking about. Bear in mind, this is a real world example. However, my knowledge of the details will eventually reach its capacity and we might have to transition into hypothetical.

I once met a woman, who was violently assaulted by her ex-boyfriend. She had just flown back into town, and was meeting her new boyfriend, both sitting in a car in a random parking lot. The old boyfriend surprised them(he had a legitimate tracker on her vehicle), shoved a knife in the new boyfriends face, and told him to stay out of it.

Then drug her out of the car by her hair and spent the next 10 minutes cutting on her and biting her(while the new boyfriend coward behind a car on the phone with the police). When the police got there he had her hair and blood in her mouth, and she was sliced(marked up deep) all over. He didn't want to stop, but threw the knife down at the last moment to avoid being shot by the police.

He was arrested, but only given a $10,000 bond. In the last he had already kidnapped her at gun point and put her in the trunk of a car on a previous occasion.

This is the person now coming to you to figure out how to protect herself.
This, again, isnt something Ive ever run into. And not something I think training can solve quickly. Id get them in contact with a sheltering group, the police, and probably an attorney, before Id even consider any training options. If they had the resources, Id suggest security.
 

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Feel free to pm me and ask questions about my background. I don't care to have it broadcast on here. If you agree to not broadcast it, I will likely share it with you. On a case by case bases.
Why the secrecy? Your background gives us all context for your questions and to know what answers we might hope for from you.
 

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Ive shared links to some resources for women. There are martial arts/self defense programs that are designed by women, for women. As you might expect, they vary from place to place. But they all seem to focus on a lot more than martial skill. In addition to everything else, they would have a network of resources.

We used to have some very knowledgeable women who were experts in this area, but I think they got tired of the not all men attitudes and left.
 
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Jared Traveler

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You arent willing to state publicly who you have trained under and for how long? If youve got specific incidents in your life you dont want to talk publicly about, I understand that. But in terms of your training history, people who are very secretive about that kind of thing dont usually get much credibility. The people who actively engage in the discussions here are typically willing to openly state their training history.
Fair enough. Many things I don't mind sharing. First, I was the police officer 3 feet from the suspect, when he decided to finally drop the knife. That was smart because I was closing the gap for a reason.

Second, I have many years training and teach Judo/Sambo, and many years with experience in other systems. I currently live in Thailand and train heavily in Muay Thai here.

I also have experience teaching the skills mentioned in the original post.
 

Flying Crane

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Fair enough. Many things I don't mind sharing. First, I was the police officer 3 feet from the suspect, when he decided to finally drop the knife. That was smart because I was closing the gap for a reason.

Second, I have many years training and teach Judo/Sambo, and many years with experience in other systems. I currently live in Thailand and train heavily in Muay Thai here.

I also have experience teaching the skills mentioned in the original post.
Would you care to share some of the other methods you have trained, and for how long? Not an exhaustive resume, but it adds context to your input.
 

Star Dragon

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I find that the longer I do this type of work, certain things become clear. One of those things is how important definitions are to bringing clarity to what you are learning, and what you are not learning. What you are teaching and what you are not teaching. Here are some terms to consider definitions for.

Martial Arts Training
Self-defense Training
Combatives Training
Safety Training
Personal Security Training

These skills are not the same. It is important to know what you are teaching and learning. Your thoughts?

I feel that the distinction you are suggesting is a bit too specific for most practical purposes.

Essentially, everything you mention falls under the heading of martial arts, in my book.

Of course, if you are training in one of the more traditional arts that focus on psycho-physical health and self-improvement, such as Aikido or Taiji, you should know that they won't prepare you for a self-defence situation without additional training. (Not that there would be anything innately wrong with the way they are normally taught - not everyone's goals are the same, after all.)

If your training is self-defence based, it should include skills like situational awareness, stress management, de-escalating a situation, and so on, to begin with. Just teaching the moves that would (hopefully) handle a specific attack isn't going to cut it!

For that matter, the skill set to be taught to law enforcement officers or bouncers (who are expected to be able to control an aggressor without inflicting lasting damage) must be different from the one in a women's self-defence class (where the "evade and destroy" approach is generally the most viable option).

Obviously, if you are training to win tournaments, that's a different animal altogether. Despite all the talk about MMA being the ultimate test of fighting prowess, fact is that what might go down in a self-defence situation is very different from what is happening in the octagon.

So yes, be clear what your training is all about (and it could fall into more than one category, to be sure), but don't overspecialize. Try to be inclusive rather than exclusive! Aim to become a well-rounded individual in what you do.
 
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Jared Traveler

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IMO, no training fits that need.
Reall
I feel that the distinction you are suggesting is a bit too specific for most practical purposes.

Essentially, everything you mention falls under the heading of martial arts, in my book.

Of course, if you are training in one of the more traditional arts that focus on psycho-physical health and self-improvement, such as Aikido or Taiji, you should know that they won't prepare you for a self-defence situation without additional training. (Not that there would be anything innately wrong with the way they are normally taught - not everyone's goals are the same, after all.)

If your training is self-defence based, it should include skills like situational awareness, stress management, de-escalating a situation, and so on, to begin with. Just teaching the moves that would (hopefully) handle a specific attack isn't going to cut it!

For that matter, the skill set to be taught to law enforcement officers or bouncers (who are expected to be able to control an aggressor without inflicting lasting damage) must be different from the one in a women's self-defence class (where the "evade and destroy" approach is generally the most viable option).

Obviously, if you are training to win tournaments, that's a different animal altogether. Despite all the talk about MMA being the ultimate test of fighting prowess, fact is that what might go down in a self-defence situation is very different from what is happening in the octagon.

So yes, be clear what your training is all about (and it could fall into more than one category, to be sure), but don't overspecialize. Try to be inclusive rather than exclusive! Aim to become a well-rounded individual in what you do

I feel that the distinction you are suggesting is a bit too specific for most practical purposes.

Essentially, everything you mention falls under the heading of martial arts, in my book.

Of course, if you are training in one of the more traditional arts that focus on psycho-physical health and self-improvement, such as Aikido or Taiji, you should know that they won't prepare you for a self-defence situation without additional training. (Not that there would be anything innately wrong with the way they are normally taught - not everyone's goals are the same, after all.)

If your training is self-defence based, it should include skills like situational awareness, stress management, de-escalating a situation, and so on, to begin with. Just teaching the moves that would (hopefully) handle a specific attack isn't going to cut it!

For that matter, the skill set to be taught to law enforcement officers or bouncers (who are expected to be able to control an aggressor without inflicting lasting damage) must be different from the one in a women's self-defence class (where the "evade and destroy" approach is generally the most viable option).

Obviously, if you are training to win tournaments, that's a different animal altogether. Despite all the talk about MMA being the ultimate test of fighting prowess, fact is that what might go down in a self-defence situation is very different from what is happening in the octagon.

So yes, be clear what your training is all about (and it could fall into more than one category, to be sure), but don't overspecialize. Try to be inclusive rather than exclusive! Aim to become a well-rounded individual in what you do.
I think there is a bit of miscommunication here. Because I'm not suggesting to be exclusive, rather awareness, so that you can do exactly what you are suggesting.
 
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Jared Traveler

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IMO, no training fits that need.
I've given up on articulating nuances of this subject. At this point it's self-evident to someone reading it, or they simply don't or will not see the value. I could keep drilling down, but it's like going for a choke you are never going to get. Better to transition to something else.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I've given up on articulating nuances of this subject. At this point it's self-evident to someone reading it, or they simply don't or will not see the value. I could keep drilling down, but it's like going for a choke you are never going to get. Better to transition to something else.
Are you suggesting there is training appropriate for someone in imminent danger, who has no prior training?
 

Gerry Seymour

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Certainly!
There are a few things that could be taught (a few things to look for), but I doubt there's training that's very effective in that situation, in the immediate need. Changing awareness doesn't happen quickly for most folks, and no physical training is likely to be useful in that short a period.
 

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