Professor Presas' non-FMA teachers

[Stan]

After reading the discussioin of GM Remy Presas' lineage in the Filipino martial arts, I got to wondering, who were his main teachers in other arts it is mentioned he studied, like Judo and Shotokan Karate? Everyone knows of his friendship with George Dillman and Wally Jay, and the influence that RyuKyu and Small Circle have had on especially later Modern Arnis, but what about this earlier work? Specifically, does anyone know where the Karate flavor of the Anyos comes from?

 

[monkey]

Hey if you go th the family hisory thred I actualy posted the World web url that states excatly that.& alot more & answers questions ect.

 

[Rocky]

Professors's Karate flavor for his Anyo's is from Shotokan.

He learned a lot of his chokes and ground fighting from early judo and in his latter years he learned a lot of his ground stuff from my dad.


A lot of his close quarters empty hand and jaming is a blend of Crossada DeMano and Tjakta (sp) Palis Palis was also his flavor for taking his opponents corner. But Crossada was probablly the biggest influence in his close quarters stuff, hence his pention for striking with the forarms.



Rocky

 

[monkey]

"Rocky bring that info to the family history thred.
Mr Anderson & I were talking of serrada & who influenced them.Id be honored
if you could put it exactly like you just did to help get the info down for the art. It is worth documenting....

 

[Stan]

Thanks, Rocky, but I was looking for his specific lineage in Shotokan and Judo. IE, who were his teachers, and where?

Monkey, I looked back over the Family History thread, and I didn't know what link you were referring to. I saw the Wikipedia link, a non-function MartialTalk link, a non-functioning link to a branch of Guro George Mazek's site, and a link explaining GM Ernesto Presas' lineage. I was looking for info about GM Remy Presas. Thanks.


And to all, given the Judo background, what techniques from Judo do you think Professor kept or abandoned as he evolved the Art? I don't have any experience in Judo, but there seems to be very few Judo type throw in later Modern Arnis. Professor's mastery of Kuzushi was obvious, however.
Stan

 

[monkey]

Good questions--When I trained from 1979-90s It was to my understanding it was retained & yet the evolution of the art picked up the Wally Jay small circle & Dilamns point hits.
Im sure he encounterd others as well there is were I am estmating
the arts of Detranka & tapi tapi emerged from or due to,
Im not 100% on that .You may want to ask a Detranka player or a tapi tapi player of its ways.
To me --the bonda y bonda & corto ect! Had no tapi tapi &
I dont tap dance or tapi nothing.

 

[monkey]

STAN it the thred family discution or of that context just go to new post & scroll down.I thinks I did it around post #29 or so on that thred.

 

[Rich Parsons]

After reading the discussioin of GM Remy Presas' lineage in the Filipino martial arts, I got to wondering, who were his main teachers in other arts it is mentioned he studied, like Judo and Shotokan Karate? Everyone knows of his friendship with George Dillman and Wally Jay, and the influence that RyuKyu and Small Circle have had on especially later Modern Arnis, but what about this earlier work? Specifically, does anyone know where the Karate flavor of the Anyos comes from?

I do not know. He did not name names to me. Or if he did then I did not listen.

I do know that Judo was in the art before SCJJ seminars with GM Jay were done.

Good Question.

 

[Cruentus]

I do not know. He did not name names to me. Or if he did then I did not listen.

I do know that Judo was in the art before SCJJ seminars with GM Jay were done.

Good Question.

I recall Judo, Jujitsu, and shotokan from Japan. But the teachers I would not know either. Good question, though. I'd be curious to find out.

Paul

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I recall Judo, Jujitsu, and shotokan from Japan. But the teachers I would not know either. Good question, though. I'd be curious to find out.

Paul

It is a good question and probably one only that Remy could answer.
I do not ever remember hearing any of his Judo, Jiujitsu or Shotokan teachers names from any source.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[monkey]

Now I do rember that Remy had time with Conyete.Momoy was heavy in to
judo.I dont know if this was his soul source,but thats one.
He did this while in Cubu.I also know the Conyete art has a karate influance.I dont know for sure if Remy pick up on that also.
I think he was a great inovator & maybe like Bruce Lee took what he felt
was the most applicable.
Alot of the anyos do resemble Conyete forms.
They might have some change as Remy felt it must be for his art.
Theres some thoughts that might have a good base to find if they have merit.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Now I do rember that Remy had time with Conyete.Momoy was heavy in to
judo.I dont know if this was his soul source,but thats one.
He did this while in Cubu.I also know the Conyete art has a karate influance.I dont know for sure if Remy pick up on that also.
I think he was a great inovator & maybe like Bruce Lee took what he felt
was the most applicable.
Alot of the anyos do resemble Conyete forms.
They might have some change as Remy felt it must be for his art.
Theres some thoughts that might have a good base to find if they have merit.

Tom,

Do you have any proof on this?

The information I have was that he trained with the Balintawak Family and not the Doces Pares family while in Cebu. He did watch and fight others, but his training was by watching and learning and practicing.

I also know he was sent as an Ambasador of Culture to Japan where he demo'd and taught Modern Arnis. He may have also trained there at that time.

Anyone with PI Library access capable of looking this up?

Curious

 

[monkey]

I know as a fact the balintawak -- Conetes -- & pananadata lines
were close to each other.The tournament & even when the General came to see the full Conete brothers in 1978.This was one of the archive films Mamoy passed to me. I also have the 1980s event.
There they demo the forms--which look alot like the anyo, & Mamoy was the main 1 that had the judo.Cacoy went more of a karate--kind of not well recieved by Mamoy but excepted.
I dont know if Remy went to these, but they were the National event to
remeber Lapu Lapu & many styles showed each year.So if Remy did
pick it up--That would be the spot.I believe Remy was in the Balintawak for over 6 yrs & going to these events --you will meet & exchange styles!

 

[Rich Parsons]

I know as a fact the balintawak -- Conetes -- & pananadata lines
were close to each other.The tournament & even when the General came to see the full Conete brothers in 1978.This was one of the archive films Mamoy passed to me. I also have the 1980s event.
There they demo the forms--which look alot like the anyo, & Mamoy was the main 1 that had the judo.Cacoy went more of a karate--kind of not well recieved by Mamoy but excepted.
I dont know if Remy went to these, but they were the National event to
remeber Lapu Lapu & many styles showed each year.So if Remy did
pick it up--That would be the spot.I believe Remy was in the Balintawak for over 6 yrs & going to these events --you will meet & exchange styles!

Once again you are drawing conclusions that cannot be proven.

Balintawak and Doces Pares were both in Cebu.

Both had people who faught each other.

Manong Bacon and Manong Buot both or by themselves could drop by any Doces Pares training and be treated with respect. So I know they were close in location and the leaders were close enough to be civil to each other.

Yet, many of the students and or students of the students would fight each other and they both thought their method was the best. So for GM Remy to train in both is not something one would expect. In particular when the information I have about his time in Cebu was all about Moncal, Maranga and Bacon in his Balintawak training. Nothing about any training with the Doces Pares.

Yes Bacon trained the Elder Savaadra while at the Fencing Club after WWI and before WWII. What happened after WWI was the Canetes became the controlling force in the Doces Pares and Manong Bacon went his own way and taught Balintawak.

I do not see the conclusion you are trying to make.

 

[monkey]

i simply stated if they had time at the tournments & since you stated the Conetes were the controlling force --it may be possable for Mamoys judo & karate line to be the insperation!The Conete forms do in fact resemble what is know as Anyos.

 

[MJS]

i simply stated if they had time at the tournments & since you stated the Conetes were the controlling force --it may be possable for Mamoys judo & karate line to be the insperation!The Conete forms do in fact resemble what is know as Anyos.

I think what he's asking Tom, is for some links, resources, etc. to refer to. The web is a huge source of info. but it can also provide many different explanations for the same subject. I can watch 2 different news stations that are reporting a robbery and chances are, I'll get 2 different versions of the same story!

And for the record Tom, I am not calling you a liar, not saying that you don't know what you're talking about and I'm not saying anything else that you may take in a negative way. I'm simply making a statement.

Mike

 

[monkey]

For exact details on conete style & how it was linked to Remy ect .

Go to the "Descution of family art " Thred.

go to post "#29" & click on the URL for Presas Family "That I provided! "

Click on the blue Balintawak & see 100% it said Conete so I was correct &
it has been verified.Any info or question can be answered in detail at this world wide family linage site.

 

[Rocky]

Rich,

Remy did study some Doce' Paris' from Momoy, if you take a good look at his foot work in Espad Y Daga the Doce influence is very evident.



As far as his Judo from Momoy I don't know .......but it makes sense since Momoy was into Judo.......I just don't know for sure....



Rocky

 

[Stan]

Thanks for all your information everyone. Although I know much information is lost to history, at least until people who were there decide to step forward and speak about it, I'm interested in Professor's experiences in Japan.

Maybe some day someone will be up for the task of a well-researched biography of Professor Presas.

 

[Cruentus]

Thanks for all your information everyone. Although I know much information is lost to history, at least until people who were there decide to step forward and speak about it, I'm interested in Professor's experiences in Japan.

Maybe some day someone will be up for the task of a well-researched biography of Professor Presas.

Besides people from Japan who might know, I am thinking that people like Mr. Roland Dantes, Senior Masters in the PI, or even possibly his children (Dr. Remy Jr. and family) might know. Anyone who has the chance to ask them might get the information (just hope they have the wherewithall to post it for histories sake).