Post your lineage to GM Hwang Kee

SahBumNimRush

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I need to get more information as to this from my Grandfather as I was always told the bellow was our lineage, however I've seen other people list him as a direct student under Hwang Kee. So its either:


Hwang Kee
Kyongwon Ahn
Me

or as my grandfather told me long ago

Hwang Kee
Jong Soo Hong
Chong Bok Lee
Kyongwon Ahn
Me


Do you know if the above mentioned "Jong Soo Hong" is the same person listed as Chong Soo HONG, one of the Moo Duk Kwan three senior ranks who led the support of the unification process in 1965?
 

reeskm

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Do you know if the above mentioned "Jong Soo Hong" is the same person listed as Chong Soo HONG, one of the Moo Duk Kwan three senior ranks who led the support of the unification process in 1965?

I sincerely hope Drew will be able to confirm this for us - but I am quite suire it is one and the same. "Jong" and "Chong" should be for the same hangul. Jong is probably newer romanization.

And Drew - is your grandfather Kyongwon Ahn? Wow, now that is something pretty special. Is he still well? I hope so.
 

reeskm

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As of this moment, I am very much of a personal opinion that Yoon Byung-In (this has support) and Yun Kwei-byung (no evidence yet) taught Hwang Kee okinawan forms.

Of course it could have been just Yoon Byung-In.
But I have a Toyama tradition dojo in my town, and the Sensei does a LOT of things the way TSD does...
Or is it the other way around?

This and I believe instruction (Hwang Kee's) from Gogen Yamaguichi (Goju kai founder) happened in Manchuria.

For years I've grappled with the subject of where MDK techniques came from. I am not yet willing to believe that Hwang Kee learned it from a specific person.

TSDTexan, I agree with you that there is a very definite Shudokan similarity. I have long ago rejected the idea that there is only a Shotokan connection. It is way more complex than that.

However, I am fairly certain that the link between Hwang and Yamaguchi was completely without merit and discredited. AFAIK - the only link was that they met when they both joined the AKF/FAJKO movement in the 60's (which deepened when it morphed into the WUKO charter in 1970).

My current theory is that it is more plausible that Hwang learned karate from someone in Seoul pre-1945 or from someone in Manchuria while he was with the railway. Possible people on my list to look into that were in Manchuria with the SMR currently include Hiroshi Kinjo and Kori Hisataka aka Seiki Kudaka.
 
OP
TSDTexan

TSDTexan

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The mystery is deep and great. And the 1950s (and forward) anti Japanese sentiment has done much to destroy history as anything. We won't have facts of any sort that are pure and held without being scornfully suspect.

We will have half prices and conjecture.
 

SahBumNimRush

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I suspected as much.

Drew did state that Kyongwon AHN is his grandfather. An impressive lineage, indeed! My KJN and GM AHN were childhood friends, and it was that relationship that landed my KJN in WV (not far away from GM AHN in Cincinatti, OH).
 

SahBumNimRush

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I sincerely hope Drew will be able to confirm this for us - but I am quite suire it is one and the same. "Jong" and "Chong" should be for the same hangul. Jong is probably newer romanization.

And Drew - is your grandfather Kyongwon Ahn? Wow, now that is something pretty special. Is he still well? I hope so.

I suspected as much.

Drew did state that Kyongwon AHN is his grandfather. My KJN and GM AHN were childhood friends. It was that relationship that brought my KJN to WV (not far away from GM AHN in Cincinatti, OH).
 

reeskm

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The mystery is deep and great. And the 1950s (and forward) anti Japanese sentiment has done much to destroy history as anything. We won't have facts of any sort that are pure and held without being scornfully suspect.

We will have half prices and conjecture.

Yeah, I know. :( But sooner or later, someone is bound to understand why all of us are so interested. I still hold out hope that there is possibility of getting somewhere! In the end, understanding this is not a matter of whether Japanese, Okinawan or Korean martial arts is better than the other but instead to understand who we all are as martial artists, and to understand history and all the postiive and negative that goes with it. :shamefullyembarrased:
 

reeve87

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Hwang kee
sarbonnim hedges (head of uk mdk)
master salter
peter reeve (me) Dan bon 48870
cant remember hedges or salters Dan bon off the top of my head
 

Runs With Fire

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Direct lineage to Hwang Kee

1. Grand Master Hwang Kee
2. To His Graduate Grand Master Song Ki Kim
3. To His Graduate Grand Master Kwon Ho Chon
4. To His Graduate Dojunim Bill Church
5. To a crazy, non-traditional redneck graduate which he will not publicly admit to, me
 

Bo_Howell

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I need to get more information as to this from my Grandfather as I was always told the bellow was our lineage, however I've seen other people list him as a direct student under Hwang Kee. So its either:


Hwang Kee
Kyongwon Ahn
Me

or as my grandfather told me long ago

Hwang Kee
Jong Soo Hong
Chong Bok Lee
Kyongwon Ahn
Me
Drew, we have a similar lineage. If your grandfather is Ahn Kyong Won, then here is our lineage (based on a handwritten note from Ahn Kyong Won to Charles Beyersdoerfer):

Hwang Kee
Hong Chung Soo (also spelled Hong Jung Soo)
Lee Buk Sung (also spelled Lee Buk Chung)
Ahn Kyong Won (you stop here, mine keeps going)
Beyersdoerfer, Charles
Radcliffe, Steven
 

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