Pinan to Pyung Ahn

[Makalakumu]

It is well known that Hwang Kee took the pinan kata series and adapted them into the pyung ahn hyung series. I want to start a thread on the differences between these kata/hyung.

Lets start with the name...

Pyung = peaceful
Ahn = confidence

How different is this from the meaning of Pinan?

 

[The Kai]

Pinan I've always heard means peacefull mind

 

[Andrew Green]

I think it's same meaning, different pronounciation.

even "tang soo" = "Tote" = "Tang Hand", tang refering to the Tang dynasty, or more generally China.

 

[Makalakumu]

In Pyung Ahn Sam Dan (Pinan Sandan), coming down the middle the second time, one leads with what looks like an outside inside crescent kick, elbow, backfist combination. I have heard that the kick was changed by Hwang Kee to the crescent kick and I am wondering what it was originally?

 

[The Kai]

I've seen it as either the crescent or the front kick

 

[searcher]

I've seen it as either the crescent or the front kick

Ours uses the front kick. We have mostly front kicks in our pinans where as the pyung ahn's use quite a few side kicks.

 

[oldnewbie]

I was taught that the kick originally was a "stomp" kick, but was changed to a crescent..

 

[arnisador]

My understanding is also that the crescent kick is a later addition...

 

[Gene Williams]

Talking about any kind of comparison between the Korean bastardization of Pinan kata and the Okinawan versions is silly. They are not even close to the same kata. As the Koreans have done in all the Okinawan kata they borrowed, they have changed techniques and added techniques to suit them, they run the kata like stiff robots with no fluidity and no understanding, and have some ridiculous penchant for high kicks. Just consider them totally different kata and move on.

 

[Makalakumu]

Talking about any kind of comparison between the Korean bastardization of Pinan kata and the Okinawan versions is silly. They are not even close to the same kata. As the Koreans have done in all the Okinawan kata they borrowed, they have changed techniques and added techniques to suit them, they run the kata like stiff robots with no fluidity and no understanding, and have some ridiculous penchant for high kicks. Just consider them totally different kata and move on.

Could you explain some specific differences that you have noticed? I am curious as to how much the TSD versions differ from the Okinawan versions.

 

[The Kai]

Talking about any kind of comparison between the Korean bastardization of Pinan kata and the Okinawan versions is silly. They are not even close to the same kata. As the Koreans have done in all the Okinawan kata they borrowed, they have changed techniques and added techniques to suit them, they run the kata like stiff robots with no fluidity and no understanding, and have some ridiculous penchant for high kicks. Just consider them totally different kata and move on.

Maybe also what the difference is in the japenese version vs the okinawan version. Every culture has taken the form from a differnt culture and adapted it. kung fu became Te, Te became Shotokan and so forth. Why were these adaptions made.
Maybe there is a reaon that the Korean forms look "stiff", does it reflect a principle the founder wanted emphasused?

 

[Makalakumu]

Maybe also what the difference is in the japenese version vs the okinawan version. Every culture has taken the form from a differnt culture and adapted it. kung fu became Te, Te became Shotokan and so forth. Why were these adaptions made.
Maybe there is a reaon that the Korean forms look "stiff", does it reflect a principle the founder wanted emphasused?

Good points. The thing about TSD is that our forms emphasize fluidity, use of hip, and explosive power. One of the principles that the pyung ahns teach us is the importance of tension and relaxation.

 

[oldnewbie]

One difference I've seen are the height or depth of the stances. Does TSD's versions use low stances like Shotokan, or are they higher? And why the difference?

 

[Makalakumu]

One difference I've seen are the height or depth of the stances. Does TSD's versions use low stances like Shotokan, or are they higher? And why the difference?

It depends on the technique. If I am doing a move whose application is a scoop throw, I'll get really low.

 

[oldnewbie]

I guess I was referring to the katas themselves. In Shotokan all stances are low, but when I dabbled in Hapkido, my instructor would try to raise me up?

 

[Makalakumu]

I guess I was referring to the katas themselves. In Shotokan all stances are low, but when I dabbled in Hapkido, my instructor would try to raise me up?

Overall, I think our stances are lower then what is typically practiced. I think the GM thought this would make them more challenging and more aesthetically pleasing. Its really hard to make generalizations though. There are so many exceptions.

 

[Grenadier]

I've seen Pinan Sandan and it's corresponding Pyung Ahn form, performed in different ways.

One style of Karate as well as a Tang Soo Do school used a crescent kick.

Another Karate style used a front kick.

Another Karate style did not utilize a kick, and instead, went directly into the elbow block.

 

[Makalakumu]

Do you remember the styles of the forms you viewed?

 

[arnisador]

Maybe also what the difference is in the japenese version vs the okinawan version. Every culture has taken the form from a differnt culture and adapted it.

Yup. The Okinawan versions themselves are largely adapted versions of the Chinese forms--some so changed it can be hard to see the connection, others still very similar.

 

[searcher]

Overall, I think our stances are lower then what is typically practiced. I think the GM thought this would make them more challenging and more aesthetically pleasing. Its really hard to make generalizations though. There are so many exceptions.

Good point about the stances. My system coming orginally from the Okinawan traditions uses stances that are very high. It is almost like a walking stance. It is for increased movement.