Payment for dan rank

[terryl965]

I had a phone call today from a gentleman and I will say gentleman, and asked me if he could test with me for his 3rd. I said who is your teacher and he said he did not have one but has trained through video and seminars, here is the funny part he said he paid 5000.00 to a Master to be certified through the Kukkiwon and paid another 10000.00 to the same guy for his second. he needs his third and the Master is no longer around and was willing to pay me to get tested for his third, he offor me 10000 to do this for him. I was lost for words and said politely no, his response was people do this everyday. I know I'm getting old, I have heard of people signing off for each other but never paying for something they have not earned.
Has anybody ever heard of this, is it just our Art or every Art?
Terry

 

[bignick]

Just think of all the new equipment you could have bought?

:barf:

 

[IcemanSK]

Given my situation, I'm really straining everything I have not to say something smart like, "What was his "Master's" name, again?" But I won't. I have heard of it, but rarely thru a well-known org. like the Kukiwon. A former student of mine paid big $$ to have high rank in an organization.

The sad thing is, this guy will find someone who will do it for him. $10K sways a lotta folks. I'm glad you were not his "jackpot" call. You take that second TKD tenet seriously. I expected nothing less from you, sir.:asian:

I'm curious, did ya ask him what he does with the rank? Does he teach? Fight? Does he even train? Why is it important to him? One would think he'd just tell folks he was whatever rank he wanted to be & save the $$. The odd part still is that he wanted to have "legit" rank.

 

[spud]

I reached 4th Dan but no longer do TKD but can suggest their may have been another option that may have been more productive to the furthering of good TKD.

What if you had of said I’d grade you for free & only charge the normal fee if you passed (skill, time spent etc.) Now I know it’s very unlikely that his skill level would have been sufficient to have passed but you never know until you see for yourself. If he didn’t pass you could have informed him where he was lacking, what level you felt he really was at & maybe a good school of benefit to him in his area.

More than likely he would have ignored you & gone on to find a “certificate sales outlet” but maybe just maybe he may have taken your input to heart & actually lifted his skill level to a level whereby if you saw him teaching or training you wouldn’t be embarrassed for him or the way in which he was perpetuating the art.

This would be then one more person who finds it an inappropriate method of archiving further ranking by buying certification & doing further damage to TKD in general. The other benefit would be not tempting or corrupting someone who “might” normally not be tempted “just this one time”. I know it’s a stretch of faith but who knows people are strange animals & sometime when offered a chance to do the right thing will take it, some on the other hand are rotten to the core & will never change.

Just something to consider, lets keep the arts alive & healthy & do what we can to remove those with ill intent & help those with the right attitude.

 

[terryl965]

I'm curious, did ya ask him what he does with the rank? Does he teach? Fight? Does he even train? Why is it important to him? One would think he'd just tell folks he was whatever rank he wanted to be & save the $$. The odd part still is that he wanted to have "legit" rank.


Iceman he has a small school, will not say where, he says, he really does not what to earn the rank in his mind he has already. kidda like he believe his video and books have tought him everything without having proper guidence, he his just killing the Tenets of my Art. What a joke, I have heard of this but have never actually seen it in action.
Terry

 

[terryl965]

Just think of all the new equipment you could have bought?

:barf:

Bignick equipment is nice but integrity could never be replace within.
Terry

 

[IcemanSK]

I'm curious, did ya ask him what he does with the rank? Does he teach? Fight? Does he even train? Why is it important to him? One would think he'd just tell folks he was whatever rank he wanted to be & save the $$. The odd part still is that he wanted to have "legit" rank.


Iceman he has a small school, will not say where, he says, he really does not what to earn the rank in his mind he has already. kidda like he believe his video and books have tought him everything without having proper guidence, he his just killing the Tenets of my Art. What a joke, I have heard of this but have never actually seen it in action.
Terry

Makes ya wonder what he tells his students about his background....and what his students are like. The kinda $$ he mentioned to offer you makes me think he HAS $$ beyond teaching. Otherwise, it wouldn't be "cost-effective" for him. He talks to you like you're a gumball machine cuz of an unscrupulous "Master" he found. I just pray he either gets found out, or "sees the light", soon.

 

[Henderson]

Somebody just needs to throw a good beating his way, and he'll figure out that he's a paper warrior all on his own.

:snipe2:

 

[Brad Dunne]

Hey!, for 10,000 I'll give him a 4th in Ah-Cho-Do and it will be signed by
Som Dum Guy....................

 

[MartialIntent]

Has anybody ever heard of this, is it just our Art or every Art?
Terry

First, my hat's off to you sir. Integrity is a concept truly understood by few.

We're all thinking that's a lotta denaro to be offered on a whim but what price to sell out our arts? I say well done Terry and hopefully some compensatory luck will head your way too!!.

To suggest an answer your question, I doubt this is restricted to TKD moreover, it's hardly confined to MA. Here in the UK, you can buy university degrees, hell, you can even buy yourself a Lordship if you're so inclined [and financially able].

As someone upthread has stated, this guy will doubtless find someone only too willing to take the money. Taught to that level remotely?? Well, he'd either make a helluva gifted student or he's suffering from some serious self-delusion! He wasn't a celebrity was he?? Or a politician?? Hehe.

 

[arnisador]

This guy will get what he wants within 3 more phone calls.

Sheesh! Why not just make up his own rank for that much money?

 

[jfarnsworth]

Bignick equipment is nice but integrity could never be replace within.

I agree. Money is the root of all evil and for some that needed the cash would have said "Let's set a date".

Good job.

 

[FearlessFreep]

OK, silly question but could you have outlined for him what that test would consist of, let him pay the money, tested him, and if he (likely) failed then he fails and if he (unlikely) actually succeeds then, well, he passed the test. If he wants to pay you to sign off on the results, then that's no good, but if he wants to pay you to test him, do I real test and no harm done. Only question is that if you have to refund the money when he fails...

If I was wearing the belt I think I really felt like sometimes...I'd de wearing 6th gup, not 3rd...

 

[Miles]

Terry, this is sad but I am sure it is not limited to TKD.

What is really sad is that the gentleman is actually teaching others if all of his training is from videos/books.

Was any of his training under an instructor? Is he geographically too far from you to come for real training? If he has $10k, why does he not just train regularly with a live instructor? Perhaps the money route is just the quickest and safest way in his mind?

Miles

 

[FearlessFreep]

If I had $10K to blow on belt tests, I'd just hire bodyguards and skipp the MA training....

 

[beauty_in_the_sai]

5000, even 1000 is ridiculous to pay for any rank. I paid $125 for my black belt test in TKD and $75 bucks of that was the cost of my black belt. Some people are just in it for the money on my opion. My instructor certainly wasn't. $35 a month for classes 3 times a week and $25 to test for color belts. That's pry around what I'm gonna charge should I ever teach. I've decided not to be in it for the money and rip people off. It's not just our art either. Professor Hargrave of JKD was going to charge my husband $400 to get his black sash. That's just for the test. He was going to have to go all the way to Dalllas, Texas to test for it and pay for that too.


Becky

 

[Gemini]

It's not uncommon for an organization to charge a high rate of money for a test such as master. They have a good idea at that point that you're going to use your ability to make money, so they want theres. I see the logic in it, but I don't think that's the case here. Sounds like he just wants to buy a belt. Good job Terry!

This guy will get what he wants within 3 more phone calls.

Unfortunately, I believe your right.

If he wants to pay you to sign off on the results, then that's no good, but if he wants to pay you to test him, do I real test and no harm done. Only question is that if you have to refund the money when he fails...

I had originally thought the same thing, but then I realized, this guy isn't even considering the possibility of failing for that kind of money. With that kind of money, should Terry fail him, he could (and probably would) have the means to cause Master Stoker all kinds of problems. Who needs it.

 

[Swordlady]

That guy got ripped off. He could've gotten a black belt certificate for a mere $12.99 on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7184679782

 

[Gemini]

That guy got ripped off. He could've gotten a black belt certificate for a mere $12.99 on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7184679782

Ah, There's a sucker born every minute, eh?.....

 

[arnisador]

OK, silly question but could you have outlined for him what that test would consist of, let him pay the money, tested him, and if he (likely) failed then he fails and if he (unlikely) actually succeeds then, well, he passed the test.

You couldn't test his character in that amount of time--just his skill. It would also be hard to be sure there were no holes anywhere in his knowledge, unless it was a really long test.