Paying For First Class?

[Tez3]

it is like receiving a screw when you want a car

Not a good analogy in the UK roflmao, Screw Definition | BritishSlang.co.uk

 

[stonewall1350]

Agree that we don't learn very much in one class. Using the same analogy (quite dangerous)... it is like receiving a screw when you want a car.

On the other hand, it is ALL about money. Perhaps some people just want to pay the (current) expenses, but it is also ok trying to pay years and years of training (sometimes around the World) or, eventually, living on that.

At the end, I prefer to pay for quality (since class 1) or do not train in a club at all, rather than wasting time (and losing skill from bad training conditions) for free/low cost...
(But I am fortunate to have good quality at 'low cost'.)

I'm not concerned about overall cost. I'm concerned about day 1. Really? In my view that is like "day zero." Come in. See what it is. Sign the waiver. Find out you are taking classes at the discount karate and dairy king from Donnie Baker and Master Ken. I want to know that when I Drop my money on a class it is because I knew what I was paying for.

Day one is a unique time because I have no idea at that point if I am learning from Bruce Lee or Master Ken.


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[stonewall1350]

OK I know I keep making Master Ken references... so in case you were still in the dark on who that is

[VIDEO]

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[marques]

Not a good analogy in the UK roflmao, Screw Definition | BritishSlang.co.uk

I hope it still has the other sense... (And I am rating INFORMATIVE and USEFUL to that comment, too.

 

[marques]

I'm not concerned about overall cost. I'm concerned about day 1. Really? In my view that is like "day zero." Come in. See what it is. Sign the waiver. Find out you are taking classes at the discount karate and dairy king from Donnie Baker and Master Ken. I want to know that when I Drop my money on a class it is because I knew what I was paying for.
Day one is a unique time because I have no idea at that point if I am learning from Bruce Lee or Master Ken.
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Fair enough. And I agree (if on the buyer side ). But at the end, it is the business of Mr Bruce Lee or Master Ken. Their choice.

On the supermarket, we may have free samples. But usually, we pay to try. I am neutral. But prefer do not pay.

 

[hoshin1600]

Well, cars are more expensive than martial arts lessons and you only buy the one at a time usually not one a couple of times

I just looked at a school for my son and the monthly contract price is the same as a small car.

 

[Kickboxer101]

There is my problem. You don't become an expert in 1 class. In 1 class...you learn exactly nothing useful. You won't be pulling off even the most basic of concepts in 1 class. I just don't trust a system that is about money. I get what you are saying, but it just seems a little...idk what the right word is. But I have an example.

Ever get an estimate on your car done? Ever see the words "shop supplies." In the auto industry...that means "shop towels/soap." Basically. Things that are the cost of doing business that you shouldn't pay for because it is something you should expect running the business. If you are gonna build the cost in...it shouldn't be its own line item.

The only reason I can see this being the case is because you have a lot of students and the newbie takes more time to teach. Like you can only fill a certain number of slots.



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Do you expect the instructor to sleep rough every night or go days without eating it's his business even if its not his full time job he's giving you his time and his experience and use of his facilities where he could be just resting at home or spending time with his family. Anyone who says it shouldn't be about money are ignorant to me because everything's about money these days people need money to live even martial artists funnily enough all systems are about money there's very few if any that won't charge anyone for a class

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Because I have no idea if it is a trained professional or ya know...

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Are you suggesting that you would not go train with Master Ken?? Blasphemy??

As an actual answer, I've got no issue with having to pay for the first class. I would have an issue if they did not let you watch a class for free, or if you are forced to sign up for a month or a contract to attend the first class.

Either way, if you are new to martial arts, you probably wouldn't be able to tell if it is a McDojo from the first class, so I tend to believe it is more of a "I don't give away what I do for free" Because of the amount of people who may come in once then leave, rather than trying to hide that they are a McDojo.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I just looked at a school for my son and the monthly contract price is the same as a small car.

Each month??

 

[WaterGal]

I think it depends on how much they're asking for and what he's getting for it. A lot of places offer a free class, but if they want $5 for it, eh, that's not much money and they're probably just trying to weed out moochers. I also see a lot of places around me that instead offer a package of one private lesson and a couple of group classes for like $20-30, probably for the same reason.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am curious how many people have been a member or regular to a gym that makes you pay for the first class? How common is this. I've honestly only seen one now that a friend is curious about joining. It is a Krav Maga gym if that makes a difference? Shouldn't. But idk. This seems really uncommon and makes me leery.


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Most places I trained in didn't offer a free class. My primary instructor didn't put anyone on the mats until they were a paying student. I offer a free class, but frankly it has little value in evaluating the program - in one class, they can't really get a feel for what we do. Watching a class is probably more informative than participating in one.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Because I have no idea if it is a trained professional or ya know...

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And you'll find that out faster by watching a class, where you can pay attention to all the students and the instructor, rather than having your attention focused on what you are doing.

 

[martialathletes]

Hey! From my experience in martial arts school operations and from taking classes at other locations it is common for some schools to charge on the first class. The majority of main stream taekwondo and karate schools will do a free trial period mainly catered to children and then go for the sale. As I have began to venture off into other styles I have noticed more full contact, MMA, Muay Thai etc. don't offer many free trials or classes. Hope this helps!

Chad Cannon
www.martialathletes.com

 

[JowGaWolf]

I am curious how many people have been a member or regular to a gym that makes you pay for the first class? How common is this. I've honestly only seen one now that a friend is curious about joining. It is a Krav Maga gym if that makes a difference? Shouldn't. But idk. This seems really uncommon and makes me leery.


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Normally people get a trial period, but the trial period is just a marketing effort to try to seal the deal. Some places do it and other places don't. It's just a preference and not anything that's required. The absence of a trial isn't enough to question the gym.

 

[drop bear]

I'm not concerned about overall cost. I'm concerned about day 1. Really? In my view that is like "day zero." Come in. See what it is. Sign the waiver. Find out you are taking classes at the discount karate and dairy king from Donnie Baker and Master Ken. I want to know that when I Drop my money on a class it is because I knew what I was paying for.

Day one is a unique time because I have no idea at that point if I am learning from Bruce Lee or Master Ken.


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You are still getting a service though. What you are getting is still technically worth something. And there are very few services that will give you a first trial free.

 

[stonewall1350]

Do you expect the instructor to sleep rough every night or go days without eating it's his business even if its not his full time job he's giving you his time and his experience and use of his facilities where he could be just resting at home or spending time with his family. Anyone who says it shouldn't be about money are ignorant to me because everything's about money these days people need money to live even martial artists funnily enough all systems are about money there's very few if any that won't charge anyone for a class

Ok. If you want to look at this in a vacuum of money...I will indulge you.

You know. I could understand the position if the guy running the gym had a select number of slots. That makes sense because of the market. That is called capitalism and you have to be able to sell a quality product which is a balance of supply, demand, and not killing your profits by letting the demand exceed your supply. Sometimes less is more.

But If you are operating on such razor thin margins that you are having to charge people for their first class to feed yourself? Then you need to reexamine your entire structure of your business. You aren't making enough money on your actual product that you are selling: memberships. You obviously don't have a steady enough income from the memberships to feed yourself.

The owner should be charging the cost of the first class into his product. That way it is spread out across time and thus...does not impact feeding himself when someone new comes in. It is called the cost of doing business and if you listen in to any insurance industry conversation...this is something they haggle over every day. Be it the shop supplies for a garage or doctor's office (aka the towels and soap and gloves and vacuum etc).

Again. These things are part of your fixed costs. You can't operate without them. You shouldn't be relying on your variable costs to pay for your fixed costs. You should be relying on your fixed costs to account for your fixed costs...that way your variable costs are profit.

And I know. I sound like a pompous jerk. I really am not TRYING to sound that way. I do feel strongly on the topic, but not enough to insult someone . I just enjoy discussing economics and business. I got my degree in history. So I suppose that the whole social studies thing is why. But I digress. I don't DISAGREE with charging someone for their first class, but only if it makes sense fiscally. If the justification is that the instructor needs it to survive...then that is bad fiscally on the part of the owner.

 

[stonewall1350]

You are still getting a service though. What you are getting is still technically worth something. And there are very few services that will give you a first trial free.

There are a lot of services that DO too. And for a good reason. It generates repeat business. You aren't selling trial periods. You are selling memberships.


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[hoshin1600]

Each month??

Yes they require a 6 month contract to start (yearly after that) and the monthly payment works out to be $190. Since I have been in the business and have trained for years I know a Mc dojo when I see one. They advertise as Krav maga, but my research shows the teacher took a 8 hr seminar. They were a kenpo school before ( dojo name change ,same owner) but still teach the kids kenpo.

 

[stonewall1350]

You are still getting a service though. What you are getting is still technically worth something. And there are very few services that will give you a first trial free.

Ps

Sorry I figured out a better way to word this.

You aren't selling a service. A service is a 1 time thing. You are selling a membership...which is a repeat business.


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[drop bear]

There are a lot of services that DO too. And for a good reason. It generates repeat business. You aren't selling trial periods. You are selling memberships.


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Wait. So the free gift is just bait?