Parents role???

[ATC]

A parents job is to send their daughter to martial arts class and when she had the fifth coughing fit of the session and I've sat her out because she's clearly unwell, the child tells me she's been off school sick all week. When the mother comes back to pick her up she tells me, laughing, that her three youngest have swine flu, cheers! That was last Thursday, guess who is typing this with a headache and a sore throat threatening.

I see a little common sense training is needed for one parent. See it is that kind of stupidity that pisses me off. I find no humor in that what so ever. Just plain stupidity.

See I would have to make an example of her. She would be called out on this in front of everyone. In a way that would make her feel really really bad. If she quit then so be it. She showed no regards for anyone elses well being.

 

[Gorilla]

Still not sure of the why and what you are asking for. When you say "partner with the parent", what does that mean? Does the parent take MA with the child? Is the parent a higher ranked belt than the child? It is one thing to have a parent that is involved in the MA and understands some of the subtleties and nuances. But a parent that is not involved in MA and has no understanding of many of the whys, what’s, and how comes of what we do can be a different thing in itself. Then you will find yourself training both the parent and the child. Even though there is some of this anyway, if the parent has not MA experience at all then you may find yourself doing more parent teaching than child teaching.

Please explain the nature of the question as it may give a better idea of what you are looking for.

More of a how do the parent and the Martial Arts instructors work together for the betterment of the student. More from the aspect of the parent who is a non practicing MAist. Who do you define the role??? What are the boundaries. The question is open (vague) so that we get a broad range dialog and opinion.

 

[NPTKD]

All joking aside, I really think parents need to understand that it isn't as easy as it looks! I have a few parents who would get mad or upset with thier child if they couldn't get a move or forgot part of thier poomsae. There is alot to remember and learn. Take it slow and remember for kids, there work is play and if they are not having fun learning ( not funny, fun in learning) then they will not stay.

 

[Gorilla]

I think the parents should be supportive and look out for the best interest of the child. I don't think there is anything wrong with a partent asking an insturcture a question or bring up a concern you have about something going on in class.

Parents should also help the child set reasonable goals. My son though it would be cool to be on the Junior National team. I sat him down and explain to him what it would take. At a mimium practicing 3 - 4 hours a day, giving up pretty much all other activities, spending less time with his friends. I didn't tell him he couldn't do it but I wanted him to be aware of what it would take. I told him I would support him if that's what he wanted. He thought about it and decided he didn't want to turn TKD into a job and would rather just enjoy it and go to a few local tournaments and have a life outside of TKD.

I had the exact same conversation with my daughter. What you told your son is absolutely correct. That type of training is what is needed to make a National Team. You have to be completely committed at that level.

 

[StuartA]

What should a parents role be in the development of their child in Martial Arts???

In your opinion do they have a role???

If so what is a parents optimal involvement???

Parents dont have a role! With the exception of signing forms and ensuring they are on time for comps or gradings!

If they want a role they should train for 6 years in TKD IMO

Stuart

 

[Tez3]

I see a little common sense training is needed for one parent. See it is that kind of stupidity that pisses me off. I find no humor in that what so ever. Just plain stupidity.

See I would have to make an example of her. She would be called out on this in front of everyone. In a way that would make her feel really really bad. If she quit then so be it. She showed no regards for anyone elses well being.

It's not my job or nature to humiliate people, I had a word with her in private. It won't happen again.
I don't know why you thought anyone found humour in there, I don't certainly. I have three children in the class with asthma who only see this child in class with me.

 

[Gorilla]

Parents dont have a role! With the exception of signing forms and ensuring they are on time for comps or gradings!

If they want a role they should train for 6 years in TKD IMO

Stuart

Do you have any experience or reason that you feel this way? I must admit that this is not an uncommon opinion! I agree that a parent should not have a role in TKD strategy or training!!! That is up to the coach!!! I do differ in one area motivational and career focus I think that the instructor and the parent need to discuss these issues to make sure that they are on the same page. Remember I am referring to the exceptional student.

 

[StuartA]

Do you have any experience or reason that you feel this way?

Yes.. 10+ years teaching TKD!

Stuart

 

[Gorilla]

Yes.. 10+ years teaching TKD!

Stuart

I was not talking about your TKD experience you are a 4th Dan. I know you are a knowledgeable MAist. Do you have any specific experiences on this subject that you would be willing to share . You seem to be very closed off this matter. I think that parents can play a limited role based on boundaries established by the instructor and the parents. I can respect you opinion I just wish you would elaborate.

 

[Gorilla]

Parents have the same role in their children's Martial Arts education as they do in every other aspect of their children's life; parents are the primary educators of their children.

In this sense, Martial Arts instructors are there to reinforce the education the parent should already be giving to their children. I do not mean, of course, that the arents teach their kids the physical techniques of a particular MA style. I mean, rather, that the education the parents are giving their children in courtesy, integrity, perserverence, self-control, and indomitable spirit as well as in things such as humility, respect, etiquette,etc. is going to be reviewed, reinforced and perhaps emphasized more in a martial arts class.

If anything is taught in the martial arts class that contradicts the child's education by his parents it mus give way, if need be by the removal of the child from the class. (The MA instructor does, after all, have the right to teach what he desires just as the parents have a right to educate their child as they desire.) All things being equal there should be little if any conflict between the lessons learned at a MA school and what the parents are teaching their children, IMNSHO.

Yes, I realize that is not always the case. But it certainly should be.

Pax,

Chris

Very good post

 

[StuartA]

I was not talking about your TKD experience you are a 4th Dan. I know you are a knowledgeable MAist. Do you have any specific experiences on this subject that you would be willing to share . You seem to be very closed off this matter. I think that parents can play a limited role based on boundaries established by the instructor and the parents. I can respect you opinion I just wish you would elaborate.

Sure.. I have had parents moan about examiners due to the fact their children, in their opinion, have been graded too harshly.. when they hadnt!

I have seen parents moan about decisions at tournament just cos their child lost (fairly). I have also seen the other side (with parents accepting that sometimes things do not always go as they should).

I have allowed parents to console their children when injured - injury is played up even though its minor, consequently I have done the opposite and for a similar minor injury it was done and dusted in 30 seconds!

Parents make excuses for their children - we dont have excuses, just levels they must attain to pass grades or not be told off when training. this is why they quit if they fail a grading, where as most adults do not.

Clubs can easily pander to parents ego.. in return the parents gets a 9 year old BB that they can boast about to grandma, loses a lot of money to pay for it and martial arts in general degrade. Neither parents, not child see this and the instructor/examiner obviously dont care! I do!

I'm a parent myself and see logic in the old saying "a parent cannot be his childs teacher" - been there myself.. it rarely works IMO!

I dont teach children, I teach young martial artists - period - and dont care what the 'children should be children' brigade think - i know if Im paying X amount permonth for martial arts, id dam well want them to actually learn it!

Part of martial arts is a toughening up process.. parents molly-coddle, this contradicts that process.

Sure, parents should support their kids endeavours (I regularly have a go at parents who do not) but thats it, when it comes to martial arts instruction they simply do not know better as to how to attain whats required.. though their input is always listen too as far a routes go - unless its excuses etc.


Stuart

Ps. My grade had got nothing to do with, just experience. I know many instructors who allow parents too much say.. it mostly causes lost of problems.

 

[Gorilla]

StuartA,

Thank you for your post. I cannot find anything that I disagree with in your post. The parents should stay out of the Martial Arts Instruction. The should support the school in which they attend. I think that if the young Martial Artists have the talent and the desire to have a career in Martial Arts the instructor should involve the parents in career direction decisions and motivational strategies. These students are rare but they do happen.

 

[granfire]

Well, it's support vs involvement.

I mean, even if the parent is on time with money and drop off, they can actively sabotaging the kid's progress. Seen that happen, I mean, you can burn out a kid in a hurry and if you are in no way quiet about not liking the program for whatever reason, the kids will eventually dropping out.


I, personally, don't like it when the parents practice with the kids at home. Frankly, most of the time I'd prefer if the kids just did fun activities of the physical nature, riding bikes, swimming, ball playing....and come 3 times to practice at the school. A lot less mistakes to fix.

 

[ATC]

I don't know why you thought anyone found humour in there, I don't certainly. I have three children in the class with asthma who only see this child in class with me.

Not that I literally saw anyone finding humor with it. Just an expression to emphasize how strongly I felt about the situation is all.

 

[granfire]

I suppose I 'injected' the humor in the flu thing. mostly because people just stun me in their stupidity - and frankly, I laugh when things get too weird.

There is NOTHING funny about sending a sick child to school or to practice. not one single thing that's good can come from this!

Tez, I hope you are feeling better (and won't play to empty bleachers, so to speak for the next weeks)

PSA: I have heard that the swine flu is contagious a lot longer than expected: Not fever, but coughing is the indicator.

 

[ATC]

Every time I attempt to contribute to this thread pro or con I find myself erasing what I typed as I counter argue the point in my head that I am typing. After doing this a few times I have just concluded that there is not straight answer. The instructor, student and parent must just find a balance. Too much from any one either way and you have a mess. But you can also say that it may be good for a parent with no knowledge to keep out. But then again it may be good for the parent to be involved to gain some knowledge to help things along at home. Then again a parent with too much knowledge can step on toes and make things confusing for the kid. Still again the parent and the instructor can be on the same page and work well together and the kid can really benefit from this.

See how dynamic this topic is. It is what it is. Not everyone will be the same and some situations will work and some won't. Each may work for different reasons just as each may fail for different reasons.

I give up.:nuke:

 

[Gorilla]

Every time I attempt to contribute to this thread pro or con I find myself erasing what I typed as I counter argue the point in my head that I am typing. After doing this a few times I have just concluded that there is not straight answer. The instructor, student and parent must just find a balance. Too much from any one either way and you have a mess. But you can also say that it may be good for a parent with no knowledge to keep out. But then again it may be good for the parent to be involved to gain some knowledge to help things along at home. Then again a parent with too much knowledge can step on toes and make things confusing for the kid. Still again the parent and the instructor can be on the same page and work well together and the kid can really benefit from this.

See how dynamic this topic is. It is what it is. Not everyone will be the same and some situations will work and some won't. Each may work for different reasons just as each may fail for different reasons.

I give up.:nuke:

Don't give up! It is a dynamic topic thats why I picked it. I also think that it is an important one. The key is communication each situation is different! Parents and instructors need to find out what works best for the instructor parent and student. I think that one of the things that parents need to understand is that it is not all about their kid they have to consider everyone in the equation(school,team, teammates other students etc...) Parents should never attempt to train their kids(if they have an instructor) it is a disaster...

 

[Carol]

Part of the reason why this can be such a controversial topic is because not all kids are the same and not all parents are the same.

There are perhaps some parents that should be more involved with their training and development and not just seeing the dojang as a source of aftercare and nothing more. There are undoubtedly others that need to stop living vicariously through their kids.

Doesn't seem like a one-size-fits-all matter....which makes for damn interesting conversation.

 

[Gorilla]

Part of the reason why this can be such a controversial topic is because not all kids are the same and not all parents are the same.

There are perhaps some parents that should be more involved with their training and development and not just seeing the dojang as a source of aftercare and nothing more. There are undoubtedly others that need to stop living vicariously through their kids.

Doesn't seem like a one-size-fits-all matter....which makes for damn interesting conversation.

Ok!!!So what are your thoughts. I am very interested...What do you do with the parent who has a very talented kid but has no interest...What do you do with the parent who is living vicariously through his kid and the kid has limited ability...

 

[ATC]

Parents should never attempt to train their kids(if they have an instructor) it is a disaster...

Well I would not say that.

I am not the head instructor at our school and I train my kids. One of the only reasons I came back to the dojang after some time off is because what I was teaching my kids at home was shot down in the dojang by one instructor. I told my kids to use it anyways until it was proven that it was wrong. Well, I am now one of the coaches for our competition team and my kids are the top two of the school for their ages. I work well with the head instructor and now am responsible for getting all new members up to speed before the head instructor brings them into his advanced classes.

Many of the Sr. fighters also come to me for advice as they say I have a way of making it all make sense. There was one Jr. fighter (16) that fought in the Korean American Games this year that I help one on one for a bit and he took 2nd. He said that a lot of what I showed him he never understood before but when I broke it down to him the way I saw it, it clicked he said. He lost by the way in OT because he did not have the killer instinct and became buddy buddy with the guy he had to fight in the finals.

Just don't think you can say that no parent should teach their own kid if they have an instructor. That may be true for many but not for all. If you and the instructor are on the same page then I think things can progress really well. Even if you are not on the same page things can still work out. For example, my instructor is one that teaches the kids to be very aggressive in the ring. He teaches all the kids the same way with the same lessons and drills. I for one like to look at the kids strengths and put together a game plan based on those strengths. If a kid is really defensive I will not take that away but play to it. I will have the kid practice baiting and drawing in his opponent. Now I am teaching something different than the instructor but in the end the kid actually becomes a better all around fighter as he is taught to be aggressive by his Master instructor but at the same time he keeps developing his defensive game at the same time. I like to call what you like to do and can do at any time your bread and butter. So while in a match if what your coach wants you to do is not working, you still have your bread and butter to fall back on.